Kniterate is a 3D printer for clothes [video] | Hacker News Reader

Kniterate is a 3D printer for clothes [video]

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105 pointskevcampb31 comments

Most knitting machine manufacturers that targeted the prosumer market have gone out of business (or left the business of making knitting machines). However, there are large communities of owners who still keep the flame burning.

One of the most interesting hacks I've seen is from a German hackerspace, who have taken two Passap E6000 machines and merged them into a fully computer-controlled "Frankenpassap" (only one bed on a normal machine is dynamically controlled).

https://www.hackerspace-bamberg.de/Passap_pfaff_e6000

I have a Passap E6000 at home and will soon start working on reverse engineering the firmware in the computer that comes with the device so that we can start the process of migrating to a more modern toolchain.

Yes, there was a knitting boom in the 1970's and Passap had a huge period of growth. Then knitting fell out of fashion, and Passap fell off a cliff. (We have a Passap Model 80 with most accessories.)

I saw the Kniterate prototype at the San Mateo Maker Faire a couple of weeks ago. They are using commercial needles on a 5mm bed, so same gauge as a Passap machines. Looks very interesting, and seemed to have automated control over all the interesting operations. The sample knitting I saw leads me to believe that they haven't quite solved the tension problem yet, the tension seemed a little uneven. Still, it looks very promising and it could be a lot of fun for knitting machine hackers.

What migration? They really can't be used for anything automated - the tension control of a Passap is notoriously flimsy. I can't tell you how many half finished garments I have lying around because the yarn snapped halfway through.

Migration away from depending on a 6809 doing things for you... and the built-in form computer.

The paper isn't up yet, but Disney has a paper at SIGGRAPH this year on a DSL and compiler for controlling knitting machines:

http://s2016.siggraph.org/technical-papers/sessions/cloth

Unlike most additive manufacturing, knitting is an area where industrial-standard machine technology used for much of the fabric you already wear is very advanced, but computational technology for driving it in nontrivial ways seems to be the main limiting factor in realizing this potential.

Wow, even better than the Nintendo Knitting System!

(Nintendo should bring that idea back and make patterns featuring Mario, Goombas, etc. available in the eShop. They'd make a killing off the hipster market.)

There is a good link here about the tech already in this industry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2S3eLrdqk4

In my opinion end to end automation in the textile industry is only a few rethink robotics style robots away from feasibility. It's only a question of investment.

It will be pretty cool when a company puts it all together, because they will be able to deliver a tailor made product and slaughter the competition on costs & overall quality.

There are tons of industrial knitting machines out there, check Alibaba. A home knitting machine that was the equivalent of a C&C machine for knits would be pretty rad. I'd use it all the time.

The reality, last I looked, is that the gap is pretty large -- the industrial machines are very feature specific "25 sizes of socks in up to 10 yarn weights!" and the home knitting machines are for hobbyists, full stop.

How would one go about renting machine times on, say, a sock machine?

I don't see how that's different from contacting a manufacturer and having them produce your product.

If you want the first-hand experience, it's usually up to you. Shared tool access is becoming more popular with the (hac|ma)kerspace scene, but even they have a hard time acquiring professional/industrial machinery of that scale. The insurance/risk in allowing you to operate it is not insignificant, either.

Best thing to do is to continue promoting personal-scale projects (like the one linked) that are developed to be accessible, but don't necessarily meet criteria to be production machines.

On sites like etsy you can find people with the older hand crank circular knitting machines to make socks for you. There are loom and shuttle clubs in most areas that would be a good place to ask. There are a few companies in the US like Chrissy's knee high socks that have industrial machines and take custom orders.

Freakers[0], a company featured in a documentary on crowd funding, rent time on sock machines, to produce bottle cosies/beverage insulators. Maybe you could contact them for details?

[0] http://www.freakerusa.com/

Computerized knitting machine from 2010:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q4tPYavChI

Knitic: open hardware, open source knitting machine (though you still have to push it by hand, the actual pattern knitting is computerized)

http://makezine.com/2015/01/07/circular-knitic-an-open-hardw...

DARPA is looking at similar

http://www.economist.com/news/technology-quarterly/21651925-...

It will really fk up a lot of low income earners.

But like a lot of these techs I'm hoping with freeish food, clothing and housing we'll pop out the other end with everyone better off.

Thought I had seen something similar before, and it turns out I was thinking of OpenKnit (at least two years old), which this is based on (as referenced in the article). Good to see that they're evolving the tech still.

Nice machine, but what exactly is "3d" about this other than the hype-factor? Knitwear is 2d last time I looked, unless this thing does pom poms too.

Gotta get those page views somehow.

It's not necessarily 3D in the sense a 3D FDM/SLA printer is, but can do things like tubes and complex forms, which come out with no seams. For example, a whole t-shirt could be printed that is seamless. There are also more yarn types than you would think, including conductive yarn.

Some companies that are using the production-level technology are Warrior Lacrosse ( http://warpforward.com/ ) and Nike Flyknit shoes ( http://m.nike.com/us/en_us/pw/flyknit-shoes ).

nicely explained. Interesting product.

Just a question. I have gone to your site www.kniterate.com, and the image very clearly has a bunch of garments with seams in them, and if I am honest, they do not look revolutionary at all. Please could you comment on this fact? Is this a non-representative stock image? I am very intrigued by your idea of, for example, the seamless t-shirt but the (admittedly single) image on your site does not do this pitch justice. Please prove me wrong. By the way, I am assuming that you are affiliated with kniterate, given that your profile on Hacker News is new.

I'm actually not affiliated with Kniterate, but I do work at a product design firm and we have a production 3D/Digital knitting machine from Stoll, one of the smaller units seen here: http://stoll.com/stoll-produkte/2_1

I can't speak for Kniterate, but by just looking at their machine, it doesn't seem to be large enough to do a whole shirt. If you take a look at the production machines, like Stoll's, they are much larger/wider/have more needles and are capable of doing a whole garment.

And I would agree, that first image of sweaters on their website look like regular sweaters, but still could have been made piece by piece and sewn together.

Knitted products aren't planar, they're manifolds with embedded curvature.

How could this be modified to make something more complex like knitted gloves? Although there are machined knitted gloves they really don't look handmade. In my opinion handmade look increases value.

I wonder if you could operate one of these at home for a profit.

Cool name

How is this used any differently from a sewing machine?

It's a knitting machine, so it's nothing like a sewing machine.

It's not a new concept; I have a manually-operated Brother machine from the mid-60's intended for home use, and industrial knitting machines for socks, etc. have been around for decades. Hobbyist computer control, is of course, the significance here.

https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5491/2393/320/tn_DSCF003...

There've been a few attempts to hack knitting machines that look interesting.

2012: https://learn.adafruit.com/electroknit

2014: https://hackaday.com/tag/brother-knitting-machine/

There are probably some nice hacks in these types of machines.

The newer Brother machines were digitally-controlled too. I think the main innovation here is tying it to the hype around 3D printing.

Search YouTube for some knitting machine videos. You will quickly get an understanding of the basic operation. It is knitting fabric from a spool of yarn, a sewing machine is joining two pieces of woven fabric using thread off of two or more spools.

A sewing machine joins pieces of fabric that were previously woven and cut elsewhere. A knitting machine extrudes woven fabric from spools of yarn. In the process, you get to pick colour and knit/purl for each stitch, so you can do "pixel art" patterns (e.g. Fair Isle style) and ribbed or textured surfaces.

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