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Comment by Piskvorrr | Hacker News Reader

As far from an MS fanboy as I am, this is one thing I need to disagree on: WinX, from my experience, seems like a well-made system; at least on fresh installs. The spying "features" can all be disabled (apparently), and function all-local, no MS account required.

The botch (which just keeps getting worse) is the forced-by-any-means upgrade; if you have an upgrade path planned, and you're in the middle of testing, having all the workstations pull the rug from under you (because "This is where you want to go today!") is, IMNSHO, borderline criminal.

In other words: We had wanted to upgrade. Within weeks. Now we're dug in the trenches, locked down and hoping we didn't miss one of the upgrade backdoors; the upgrade plan is, of course, scrapped altogether. In a sentence: COMPLETE LOSS OF TRUST.

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The spying "features" can all be disabled (apparently), and function all-local, no MS account required.

Even if that is all true today -- and I'm expressing no view here on whether it is -- with mandatory updates there is no guarantee anything will continue to work the same way tomorrow. If there is one thing Microsoft has proved beyond any doubt over the past few months, it is that we can't trust it not to abuse Windows updates. This is why the trust issue has become a major PR problem, though I suspect many in senior management at MS are still in denial about how bad that problem really is.

The data collectors can be disabled, but MS has renamed services or otherwise introduced remedies to prevent disabling of the collectors, and therefore it's safe to distrust in that regard.

Only Entreprise customers can fully opt out of all data collection. [1] All other users can only disable a subset and their PCs will submit "Basic Telemetry" regardless of what they do. Microsoft has defended this:

" Windows 10 still phones home to Microsoft with telemetry data including an anonymous device ID, information about the type of device that's being used, and data from application crashes. That sort of data has been key to solving problems with the operating system and other applications, according to an explanation published Monday from Microsoft Corporate Vice President Terry Myerson."

[1] http://www.infoworld.com/article/2987175/microsoft-windows/m...

This is incorrect. You can absolutely turn it off - http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-disable-telemetry-and-data-co...

Undocumented registry edits based on peoples guesses and other hacks from random blogs are not a solution.

Microsoft has used updates to change service and update names related to Telemetry already. Some of the "tips" in the comments are also wrong, like using the hosts file to block certain domains which Telemetry services don't respect.

Unless it's a documented method from Microsoft it doesn't count. Their stated aim is that all non-Enterprise customer will take part in "Basic" telemetry. Until they change that stance, random hacks from the blogosphere are at best unreliable and at worst dangerous and give a false sense of privacy and security.

> Unless it's a documented method from Microsoft it doesn't count.

Oh, I didn't realize that we were playing a board game. No, in real life when something actually works...people can use it. The registry edit does indeed work. I've used it. Plenty of people use it. So yeah - that does too count.

Apple doesn't support HomeBrew and tons of other things that developers do on OS X, but nobody sits there and says "that doesn't count".

Linux distros don't support every single configuration that Linux users put in...but nobody says "it doesn't count".

The difference is that Apple doesn't actively try to prevent Homebrew from working, while Microsoft has issued updates with the purpose to rename NT services and other things, in order to defeat the workarounds.

Given that I use my Windows machine solely for gaming these days, the fact that I am not allowed to disable the real time virus scan permanently is a mark against Windows being a well made system. It's a notable loss of control over my system.

> The spying "features" can all be disabled

I've yet to find a way to disable the telemetry on a non-enterprise system. I'd appreciate any links to instructions on how to do this.

To disable real time virus scan permanently you can boot into safe mode and then rename/delete C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MsMpEng.exe

I appreciate knowing how to do this, but I don't think booting into safe mode and deleting an exe counts as being "allowed" to disable scanning. It's a workaround, but definitely not a solution from MS.

Ouch. That's worse than I thought. Well, one more item in the "risks" column; not that it matters anymore (being 1001th such item, where the tipping point was at 200 ;)).

>WinX, from my experience, seems like a well-made system;

I've had the opposite experience. The OS that's supposed to have all the drivers didn't have all the drivers and I know a ton of people who were stuck without wifi (and a few who could not even connect through ethernet), had graphics problems which basically made their OS unusable, had all sorts of performance issues (especially on small netbooks that auto upgraded), the list could just go on.

You shouldn't have to disable spyware when installing an OS. You shouldn't have to install powershell to remove candy crush (which is what you had to do when Win10 first came out). You shouldn't have to uninstall adware on a new OS. You shouldn't need an SSD and other newer/high-end hardware to run an OS, especially when other operating systems run flawlessly on low-end hardware.

Nah, Windows is a trash OS and it seems like the only people who use it are people who are forced to because of program compatibility.

That is the run-of-the-mill set of issues I've had with any Windows upgrade, and something I'd be willing to dismiss as teething problems: usually not MS's fault but the OEM's (especially drivers and shovelware); plus the HW requirements didn't go up so dramatically, compared to W7.

The "spy on everything" and "you MUST have cloud" attitude are actual OS issues, I agree.

> Nah, Windows is a trash OS and it seems like the only people who use it are people who are forced to because of program compatibility.

I was on linux for 10+ years, and I switched to Windows after they released 10 because I was truly happy with it after trying the tech preview. The program compatibility is just a bonus. Almost all of my family uses Windows over OS X because they can't stand the weird ass intentionally hobbled UI of OSX.

Excuse me, but if there is a "weird ass intentionally hobbled UI" then that's the windows UI. ms was never able to create a proper DE.

I disagree, my point remains that many people have different preferences than you in what they want from an OS, and many people do legitimately prefer Windows over OS X (or linux, but most people don't really know that's an option.)

No, it's OS X. For example - go and open any window from a "menu bar application" such as BetterTouchTool's settings window.

Now try switching to that window with they keyboard in OS X, without using any 3rd party helpers like HyperSwitch.

You can't do it.

Also try running 2 instances of the same app in OS X. You also can't do that.

OS X is garbage compared to Windows.

I see you comment negatively on Microsoft articles just about every single time they're posted. It makes me think that you have some sort of agenda and so I don't really trust your opinion at all.

For myself, having used Linux since early Red Hat releases and Macs (professionally) since System 6 - I am certain that OS X and every Linux desktop are absolute garbage compared to Windows.

Anyway, to address your concerns:

> You shouldn't have to disable spyware when installing an OS.

You don't have to. Problem solved.

> You shouldn't have to install powershell to remove candy crush.

You don't have to do that either. Problem solved.

> You shouldn't have to uninstall adware on a new OS.

There is none. Problem solved.

> You shouldn't need an SSD...

You don't need one. Problem solved.

> Nah, Windows is a trash OS and it seems like the only people who use it are people who are forced to because of program compatibility.

Well, that's your opinion. I use it because it's the best. So, given that you're obviously wrong that "people only use it program compatibility [and no other reason]" we'll have to conclude that your opinion is not based on facts.

>You don't have to. Problem solved.

You do if you don't want to be spied on.

>You don't have to do that either. Problem solved.

You did.

http://superuser.com/questions/958562/how-do-i-remove-candy-...

>There is [no adware]. Problem solved.

I consider Candycrush is adware

>You don't need [an SSD]. Problem solved.

Well it runs terribly whithout one.

> You do if you don't want to be spied on.

It's telemetry and it's not spying. Do you use a smartphone? If so, you are already running something that has telemetry in it.

> I consider Candycrush is adware

Who cares? Again...do you use any smartphone? Do you realize that just about every smartphone that people use has some sort of app on it that has some ads? You're making a big deal out of absolutely nothing.

> Well it runs terribly whithout [an ssd].

Well my long time experience with Windows says otherwise. You apparently don't use Windows, so how would you even know? Besides that, why would you want a non-SSD for any OS in 2016?

Your opinion is based on issues people experience. OS support forums are filled to the brim with users' woes, and anyone could look at them and conclude that most OSs are trash. Would you yourself be so principled then?

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