Perfect Information Game: On Chess
hazlitt.net
hazlitt.net
It means that, in principle, it is simply a matter of running Minimax on a sufficiently powerful computer, and the game can be solved. I do mean 'in principle': actually doing this is still well beyond the world's computational capabilities, though this doesn't stop computers playing stronger than any human.
People find an abstract beauty in the purity of the game's structure, but I find that lack of information asymmetry makes the game less rich. One does not need to attempt to induce the other player's thoughts, their strategies or the location of the pieces, one merely has to look at the board. There are no feints, one cannot pretend to be following one strategy and actually be planning something else.
Some of these features do crop up, sort of: due to the size of the game's space and the imperfection of the players, players can be surprised by a particularly brilliant move. But this is an artifact of the players not being good enough, not a feature of the game itself.
I find it strange in this light that chess (and go) have historically been seen as a sort of wargame, a respectable pastime for generals and the like. Reasoning and planning in the presence of uncertain information (the "fog of war") is one of the most important aspects of military strategy and actually common to most human endeavours. The 'uncertainty' due to the combinatorial complexity of the game doesn't really capture that sort of probabilistic scenario very effectively. For example, many games lacking perfect information do not have a solution, rather the optimal 'solution' is a mixed strategy where a player randomly selects from a set of strategies weighted by probability. This also means that the other player can't simply know "my opponent is playing perfectly, therefore they will play strategy X", making the game in some sense much harder. This, of course, tends to generalise to imperfect players and real-world games as well as just the ideal.
It means that, in principle, it is simply a matter of running Minimax over all possible distributions on a sufficiently powerful computer, and the game can be solved. I do mean 'in principle': actually doing this is still well beyond the world's computational capabilities, though this doesn't stop computers playing stronger than any human.
Your statement does not hold for games truly characterised by imperfect information (e.g. poker), in theory or in practice.
You still have less than perfect information about the decision tree, and you have to pick what you think is the best move from all of the available moves. In that respect, games of perfect information are no different than games of imperfect information when the scale of the game is too large to be solved.
I don't think this is correct. Both could be solved by determining the perfect move for each board arrangement, leading to a very simple, but very data-heavy solution (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_number - number of chess positions somewhere below 2^155 - and also need to track for each position whether can empassant for each pawn like X-FEN does, and http://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html - number of Go positions for 19x19 board ~2.081681994 * 10^170, though other-sized boards would each need their own set of solutions). In addition, both Chess and Go engines have beaten masters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93computer_chess_m...
http://www.wired.com/2016/03/googles-ai-wins-fifth-final-gam...
You could be correct about the human brain being incapable of storing all of the Chess or Go solutions. While the brain could perhaps memorize enough strategies and board positions to substitute, the theoretical maximum of 2.5 PB may not be enough to hold all board positions and metadata.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-memory...
[0] http://www.fnal.gov/pub/science/inquiring/questions/atoms.ht...
Linear regression provides the equation: year = 4.222874399 ln(numBytes) + 1896.534826
Assuming the average bits required to represent a board state is 160 [2], then: 2^155 positions x 160 bits = 9.13e47 bytes
4.222874399 ln(9.13e47) + 1896.534826 = 2362.87979
So, a projection shows that by year 2362, we could have a single storage drive holding every permutation of a board state, so it would be less than 2 drives to store the states along with the move to make for that board. Add more drives and you pull that date in.
References:
1a. http://www.pcworld.com/article/127105/article.html 1b. http://www.computerworld.com/article/2473980/data-storage-so... 2. http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/19397/smallest-c...
Oh you added something on the end. Well, augmenting a human brain doesn't change the search space of solving Chess and Go (especially Go). You may be underestimating how large those problems are.
Mind games (bargaining, precommitment, etc.) only become important in non-zero-sum games, where the goals of players align in some ways and oppose in others. For example, if chess had an additional possible outcome where both players lose, that could make it impossible to find a single best strategy.
Seems as though it's most easily played as a computer game.
For those who want something shorter I can say that based on your reasoning, bridge is much more interesting. This may be sound as a joke since in US bridge is mostly played by old people, but is true.
The most important reason is that bridge will never be perfectly solved by computers. Someone said in this thread "for imperfect information (games), there is still a perfect, computable solution". This can be true, but the interesting point is that this perfect computable move may be the wrong move by far.
In order to explain this I will say that in bridge there are many situations where you have to choose between two paths. Path one is a winner 65% of the time according to mathematical analysis. Path two is a winner 5% of the time according to the same analysis above. However path two is the winner, because the opponents have also incomplete information and even according to their BEST analysis (mathematical or psychological) they must follow up with a movement that will make you win 100%.
Unfortunately as the author said, this cannot be appreciated if you are not very familiar with the game.
Since you mentioned generals and the like, Eisenhower was a bridge fanatic. At present time it is enjoyed by the two richest men in Earth, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.
So while in principle, the best chess program is, yes, a computer program, humans enjoy learning systems and that's part of why Go & Chess has survived thousand(s?) of years.
www.amazon.com/Theory-Game-Design-Raph-Koster/dp/1449363210/
Additionally, humans seem to not learn by the "min-max" algorithm. Grandmaster Go & Chess players don't exhaustively search all options then compute the best. They use fundamentals (and perhaps intuition, maybe parallel processing?) to see a great move. We still know very little about how brains learn and strategy games are great opportunities to explore this.
Limitation is the source of all creativity.
There's http://www.computerpokercompetition.org/ and they usually provide a short writeup. However the best bots are likely not found in academia but at the table of online poker sites.
What games do you find interesting to either just think of or to play?
>> My own personal conception of existential dread is, like my inability to visualize, idiosyncratic. Many people, I think, are troubled by their own insignificance, preferring not to think about being a tiny part of a vanishing species in what couldn’t even be called a corner of the universe. Not me—I’m fine with that. ... That’s all infinity does, or rather doesn’t do. It doesn’t scare me.
>> What does scare me—what provokes real horror in me—is excess reality. I see mental horror—The Void—in the tumbling numbers of securities trading, or the heaps of barely decipherable ancient papyrus dug up in the near Middle East, or the global weather patterns which have evaded, to this date, capture by any mathematical model. I am troubled by the world’s great throngs of data—by thickets of facts I might comprehend individually, but that together make a chaos capable of receding before me as long as I live—the miles of definition leading nowhere.
>> That’s what I felt, staring at the board in front of me. I felt like I couldn’t put my pieces anywhere, because I felt like I could put them everywhere, for all eternity. I basically blacked out.
These parts are well written and convey his experience on entering the zone. These are negative images coming from the inability to perceive order. There is also the positive part with the state of flow in being absorbed in this alternate world.
I like Hikaru No Go, which conveys a sense of being a go player, with the attractions of a game, the competitions, the disappointment in the backdrop of a fantasy story.
- "chess is a deeply unnatural skill - it requires the full command of a bunch of neurons that the adult mind has already donated to the ability to navigate a grocery store lineup without screaming"