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Comment by sillysaurus3 | Hacker News Reader

Want to name some numbers? Ideally with context.

I'd like to know how high is high in SV. Especially for junior positions.

I'd say this thread is not a bad first approximation for what you are asking for (but note that high side has a lot of variance and is very much context, person, and importantly, timing dependent and the uniquely highs are always underrepresented in these threads, almost by definition):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11314449

As a skilled junior person without having/being known for specific connections/expertise, probably the best generic advice, if your goal is purely optimizing for salary $$$ [and I wouldn't blame anyone for this, but I'd say there are many other factors to optimize for as well], is to get offers at various places, while making sure at least a couple bigcos are included, and play the standard negotiation game (they don't really negotiate with you; they negotiate with each other over you). Also, don't be afraid to jump ship early on when you get a better sense of the numbers you can command and avoid inertia. Inertia can be a big hinderance, especially very early on when a recent decision with much less data is made; a course correction might be essential.

P.S. people who make the real $$$s, don't do that by optimizing for a (risk-free) "salary" taken from an employer, so always keep that in mind.

Can you define inertia in this context? Does it mean the risk of staying stagnant in a lower paid position?

Yes. Too often, people stay at their jobs, simply because they don't even think about it. Leaving your job requires you to step outside of your routine and do something you don't regularly do. Conversely, staying your job simply requires you to stick to the same routine that you've been doing for years and years.

Don't allow your major life decisions to be made on auto-pilot. If you want to stay, then make a conscious decision and stay. If you haven't made such a conscious decision in years, it's time you had that conversation with yourself.

I'd say if you're in SV, have a pretty good background, interview at top-paying public firms like Google/Facebook, get good scores, and negotiate very well, you can expect around

  - new grad: ~175k
  - 4 years: ~300k
  - 6 years: ~350k

Note that I'm including equity, expected cash bonuses, 401k matching, and sign-on bonuses (which I normally divide by 4, since 4 years seems like a typical period to stay at these companies).

the 4/6 year ones are way too high unless you're going for some sort of specific role they need. like if you specialize in robotics or machine learning

The 4 year number is mostly from my own experience. I interviewed recently, and my highest offers (after significant negotiation) were

  ~316k from a public company
  290k~350k from a private company, depending on which valuation you use (409a vs preferred)

Again, this is including equity, expected cash bonuses, etc. I have 4~5 years experience and no unique skills.

The key is to get at least 2-3 offers around the same time, do a lot of research, and be mindful about what info you share when negotiating. When a recruiter asks about salary expectations, I think it's good to share a number, but it could be your current salary, a competing offer, or just a (substantially high) target number. And it could be base salary, or blended compensation. Share the bits of info which are most advantageous to you, and keep the rest private.

The new grad and 8 year numbers are from some info friends have shared with me, and some public info (like the spreadsheet that appeared on HN a while ago, and some info individuals have shared on Quora).

How did you value the options?

I didn't have any offers involving options. The ~316k offer involved public stock, and the 290k~350k offer involved private RSUs. 290k is using the company's 409a price and 350k is using their preferred share price.

Are these numbers before or after pitting competing companies against each other?

After; my first offer was substantially lower.

That 4-year number is roughly consistent with both the SRE offer I got recently at Google and the SWE offer a similarly-qualified friend got, and we have no super special domain knowledge.

Not directly related, but that comp ramp-up between years 1-4 and 4-6 seems similar to what I see at my current place, which is starting to cause some discontent and potential retention fun down the line, with people getting used to everything ramping up quickly initially and then slowing down once they get to a more mature level (and title changes get further apart too, since you're expected to do more and more at each role).

Interesting to see similar numbers from elsewhere.

you should divide by four here too.

First year, what would the person get? $195k, with $160k salary and 35k in stock?

I'm a young Senior Engineer. I'm low on the tenure side, but I've run successful teams and have deep technical knowledge.

I say $220k total comp and that I will count equity but if it's not liquid it won't be worth much.

I base that off of what I would get at Google or Facebook (including equity).

I've asked around and most companies take it seriously.

For junior engineers, I would say $160k. For mid, $180k - $200k. Again, total comp. Equity counts but at my value, not theirs.

160k for junior and 220k for senior? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Do you mean that's not a big enough gap?

Yes. And also crazy starting salary for a junior.

160k isn't salary, it's total comp. A conservative Google new grad salary is going to be $110k + 35k in GSU/yr + 15K annual bonus (not including signing bonus). Many negotiate an extra 15-20k in GSU/yr.

220k is perhaps on the lower side for senior, maybe closer to 250k is on target. $140k at Google plus 90k in GSU/yr + 20k annual bonus. Could be much higher though.

It is also important to note that years 2,3,4 at Google are going to likely result in stock top ups and comp will skyrocket, but I was largely referring to starting salaries here.

Edit: Also, as mentioned I'm a young Senior. Google isn't likely going to bring me in at level 4.

24 y.o college grad software engineer at "Big Tech" company in the valley.

Started at 107.5k with promotion and raise to 120k

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