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Comment by serge2k | Hacker News Reader

> How about Java?

and then the C# devs rightfully laugh at that idea.

Please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.

The parent comment was fine because it went into detail about specific experiences. But a reply like this is just kindling for flamewars, and we don't want those on HN.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11830868 and marked it off-topic.

I forgot HN is SUPER SRS BSNS.

I don't know man, the hello world look quite the same. I don't think C# dev have anything to laugh about. I would rather be concerned how Oracle is using Java in courts.

But technically Java is one of the more favorable languages we have out there in the world. Go look at tooling like Scala, Maven, how easy it is to get something running on a *nix box.

public class HelloWorld { public static void main(String[] args) { System.out.println("Hello, World"); } }

public class HelloWorld { public static void Main() { System.Console.WriteLine("Hello, World!"); } }

For the world of me, the C# folk keep parroting about how much "better" C# is than Java, and having worked _extensively_ in both, I can't seem to see it, especially with Java 8. Maybe if you said C# is "so much better than Java" in the days of Java 6 I would agree.

I also hear the "faster" argument, but have yet to see any meaningful benchmarks proving this. In fact I see more showing the opposite, but maybe I am not looking hard enough?

Honestly for me the main difference are the IDEs. I started with Eclipse and the jump to IntelliJ was huge/great. But using Visual Studio was always a better experience.

Your point about the difference between the languages is definitely true re: Java 6. Java stagnated for a few years there while C# was improving with things I'd actually use. Java 8 is definitely an improvement and ultimately I think it would boil down to ease of use and familiarity when comparing them.

One thing I don't miss about java is server configuration. At the same time, I'm definitely relying on IIS doing things behind the scenes I probably don't know about.

IntelliJ now, at least in my opinion, is unmatched. Intellij feels more like a lightweight text editor now like a Sublime, but all the power of an IDE, whereas Visual Studio very much feels like a kitchen sink IDE. Intellij sometimes gets bogged down when it reindexes your files (which you can optimize by excluding certain folder), but Visual Studio sometimes brings my entire system to a screeching halt while I wait for it to do whatever it is it is doing.

Also, I know this is nitpicky, but having to press CTRL+K, CTRL+C, then CTRL+K,CTRL+U to comment/uncomment just feels obscene to me. I understand you can modify the shortcuts, and I am being petty, but CTRL or CMD+/ toggle comments off/on just feels much better, and that's probably one of the most used ones for me which is why I am probably nitpicking about it.

Sorry if I sound like a bit like an asshole, but there is a bit more to languages than how they do Hello World.

Yeah, like "how much money do I need to pay per developer on tools?", or "how much money do I need to spend on deployment?", both of which are major business-world concerns, and which strongly favor Java over C#.

For the first part... .Net Core can be developed without Visual Studio just fine, and to a certain degree so is traditional .Net.

For the latter, that's more runtime than language, for which Mono and .Net Core cover for reliably running on *nix.

Full disclosure: I'm one of those hippies that believes Java's/C#'s model of OOP is the 3rd biggest cancer in this industry, with 1st and 2nd being Oracle and Microsoft. I hope that makes it very clear that I don't exactly like either language, but I do believe C# to be a clear improvement over Java.

Java the language (syntax-wise) is just slightly worse than C#. JVM is better than CLR (or at least has a shit ton more development time on it). Java the ecosystem is a burning hell where passion is killed by infinite amount of AbstractPainAbstractManagerFactoryFactoryManagerGenericHelpers.

I think you're talking about Spring the ecosystem. Truly a burning hell, with your path dimly illuminated by ten trillion outdated stackoverflow and coderanch posts, and where at every junction you can choose either the XML or the annotations path.

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