How Apple lost its way: Steve Jobs’ love of simplicity is gone | Hacker News Reader

How Apple lost its way: Steve Jobs’ love of simplicity is gone

theguardian.com

48 pointsdigikazi69 comments

What a terrible article. This article has no substance to it at all. The author rehashes the line about how Apple is doomed b/c Steve Jobs is irreplaceable. It's more nonsense from there.

Simplicity in product lines: "Apple now sells three different iPhones, four different iPads and three different MacBooks." This is "endless choices"? Is the argument here really that Apple Watch has too many band options, and this constitutes a violation of simplicity in product lines?

Simplicity in software: literally the only argument the author provides here is Apple Music. There is actually a case to be made here, but the author doesn't make it (iTunes has been a disaster for years).

Simplicity in product naming: Apple is retiring iThings in favor of Apple Things, and consumers understand far too well that "S" releases are off-year/internal changes only. If customers understand something as esoteric as that, how is the product naming too complex?

Simplicity in marketing: The author's argument here is just that the internal Apple marketing process is more complex, because Steve Jobs doesn't just keep it between himself and the ad agency anymore.

Even if you took this seriously, is there any PC hardware company with product lines/software/naming/marketing as simple as Apple's?

"Apple’s ability to make software solid and simple has come under attack"

I don't actually recall Apple's software being any better or worse than the competition after OS 6. The fact is that ALL software, including Apple's is confusing and hard to use. You just have to watch normal people trying to use computers and phones to understand that. It's not at all surprising that Apple have simply reverted to the mean. But this isn't a new thing. iTunes has been a constant bafflement since its release - and so has pretty much all complex Apple software.

> iTunes has been a constant bafflement since its release

My memory must be suffering because I recall the first versions of iTunes being extremely simple. It was a list of music, and you could play said music. You stuck in a CD, and it would rip it for you. Very little else else.

Then they bolted on: a music store, iPod sync, podcasts, video player, library sharing, social network, iPhone + app management... etc etc etc.

Exactly, it became a dumping ground for things that weren't goign to get their own app. It's hideous, I've stopped using it entirely.

I wonder if all that happened because it is Apple's beachhead in the Windows ecosystem. We may be observing the same with how Google chrome has gotten more and functionality added over time.

iOS is easy enough for my mom to use, which I can't say of anything before it. Although it's definitely gone downhill in the last few years incorporating Android and Windows Phone features such as swipe-ins, hidden chrome, and other non-discoverable brain damage.

If your mom understands iCloud, I'm impressed.

iCloud is crap, but she doesn't need to understand it to use her iPhone and iPad effectively. Heck, even I don't use it except for backups.

Fair enough. It's a bit of a sore point for me, because when my mum asks me for help with her iPhone I find I often either don't know, or can't explain, Messages and iCloud behavior. Trying to explain what constitutes a Messages account, even if you understand it yourself, is a nightmare.

What gets us is the rules for when you can log onto different iTunes accounts on the same device we have quite a bit of content my mom bought for our daughter that's sitting in her account unusable.

I have similar problems updating my AppStore purchases. I bought them with two accounts. Every time a software update is available (which is most days) I have to log into two accounts. The requirement that I switch to the appropriate country's store is pretty annoying.

> iTunes has been a constant bafflement since its release.

Back when I was on Mac (~2007), iTunes was extremely simple. There was a left menu with playlists and artists, a top menu with settings like "import", and a bunch of familiar play/stop buttons.

You would plug in your iPod, and it took you to an iPod screen with a set of minimal options (sync all / select sync). It was simple as an old-timey jukebox.

Last week, six years later [1], with 3 years of professional software development under my belt (on supposedly user-unfriendly Linux), I tried to help my girlfriend change playlists on her iPod... I was utterly baffled. Hidden menus everywhere, secret right-click and guess the magic word drop-downs... I felt like an idiot. I can't imagine grandpa understanding this software.

Worst of all, it was sloooow.

Meanwhile my (non-techie) mom does just fine on Ubuntu; which will run blazing fast on any tin box.

(I can tell the same story about connecting my System76 laptop to the the workplace printer, vs. my coworker's MacBook.)

---

[1] Scrap that... 10 years later. Jesus Christ. Get off my lawn.

Oddly i would have expected both products to use CUPS for their printing...

I used iTunes on Windows back in 2003-ish, it was actually a pleasure to use - fast and simple. I recall actually wishing that Apple would use this GUI to build more Windows apps!

I still remember my iPhone 3G. The settings "app" was so simple that I couldn't imagine a smart phone would be so "perfectly" configured, without any user modifications.

Nowadays it's different. I have my Apple Watch for one year already and I haven't clicked / tapped everywhere yet. I barely use some of the features ( as Mail, Music, World Clock and many others ) and I definitely do not feel satisfied because of that.

The author has a good point saying that Apple is moving out of simplicity. There is a new market gap that IMHO, is increasing and soon I hope a company with money and bold vision will become for that market, what Tesla is for the auto-industry.

Well back then the iPhone was more a featurephone with a fancy UI than a smartphone.

The arguments are a bit rubbish eg

>With the current models consisting of iPhone 6S, iPhone 6S Plus and SE, Apple’s naming scheme is becoming noticeably less simple.

That started with the 3GS many years before Steve left.

The simplicity thing lives on in Jony Ives. He might even be overdoing it with things like only one port on the Macbook.

To be fair, the author does go on to say:

> But bear in mind that Steve is the guy who started iPhone with the S-names in the first place.

It's a bit different though, isn't it? The 3GS was a successor. The current models share the same space.

2009: iPhone 3GS

2016: iPhone — 6S, 6S Plus, SE

2009 was iPhone 3GS and 3G at least; they may even have still sold the original at that point. Three different models for the biggest-ever consumer electronics product doesn't seem too crazy.

Especially when you compare them to Samsung's plethora of devices.

I wish Samsung would coalesce their phone options to 3-4 devices, would be a lot easier... Same for most others.

That said, I would still love a mid-range desktop option from Apple... with actual user-upgradable hardware.

With Samsung it seems to be a Korean corporate culture problem. Something about being involved with a shipped product being a way to score social points and work towards a promotion.

That said, all those devices leads to them being willing to try things. Like for example that model with a pico projector.

They sold multiple models, but only one flagship every year.

Out of all the execs we've seen since, the one that seemed to come the closest to Jobs in force of will and design sensibility was Scott Forstall (now gone, of course). We may not like skeumorphism now but the original iOS design was an impressive achievement.

Agreed. Apple maps was a huge screw up and if he was responsible it makes sense why things were handled that way.

Still, iOS and Mac OS X are both so bland and ugly that it's a terrible homage to the legacy of Jobs and his focus on tying tech to the lives of people.

Todd; Apple user interfaces look like Google and Microsoft these days. Not like those are something you should aspire to have your product look like.

not really MS's reinterpretation of flat design was by committee and lost..Apple's reinterpretation of flat design was wrongly focused on what looks good rather than design theory and Google's Material Design..well guess where the iOS lost in sales are going to for their next device..as its not MS..

> Agreed. Apple maps was a huge screw up and if he was responsible it makes sense why things were handled that way.

Given its continued screw up, I find it hard to blame him.

I do wonder if he'll ever do any OS related things from here on out. It would be interesting to see him guiding a Linux (well I would prefer BSD) distro.

I'd overlook 99% of this if Apple gave a shit about the pro market instead of obsessing over phone sales. The software is on life support or dead (Aperture) and the hardware well behind the competition. OS X relies on a file system nearly twenty years old…

Edit: Used to be that iOS devices drew people into the Mac ecosystem, where the Mac HW and SW was suitable for doing real work. These days, I get the feeling that Apple expects everyone to stay on iOS devices and begrudgingly sells Macs as iOS development and personal productivity machines. People with serious work to do should look elsewhere.

I'm pretty comfortable in iOS, Linux (Ubuntu) and Windows... I use bash just about everywhere, Windows tends to be the odd one out... but most of the software I use is the same across platforms, just varying shortcut keys.

I suspect you can pin the start of when they discontinued (in classic Apple fashion) the Xserve line. And being finalized with the into of the "trashcan" Mac Pro.

Then again, Apple have for nearly a decade now being selling their stuff as "lifestyle" devices, so one should not really be surprised.

A leader is only as good as his people. And this is yet another article doing disservice to all the people working at Apple. Steve might have given the direction but he was hardly responsible for every idea that came out of Apple. The logic goes like - if something good happened, it was steve's genius. If something bad happened, it was despite his genius. For the last 4 years, Tim has been managing the company and growing it incredibly well.

Next what sundar is personally responsible for the really silly notes app that came out recently (I even forgot it's name)?

Apples problem is not the lack of ideas or talent, but the lack of an ability to prioritize which ones to focus on.

That was Steves talent, thats what they are lacking today.

It also doesn't do great things for morale if you don't believe in the direction your company is taking. The smartest employees in the world aren't much use if they burn out.

I don't doubt that. I am sure priorities can be set by one man. But the article talks about he is the main driver for simplicity in the products. Which is an design/engineering outcome. I think the simplicity of apple products is the work of lots of people and not one man.

He was the main recognizer of it's value to build products which were easy to sell.

It's hard to find many other CEO's who were so articulate as to why they believed what they did would work and turned out to be right.

He was wrong about many things too, but if it wasn't for him apples wouldn't have made the product choices they did despite what everyone else was doing.

Not so much as talent, as him narcissistically using himself as the yardstick for "end user". Supposedly the iPod shipped with a idiosyncratic equalizer default tuned to Jobs ears.

Narcissism is a perfectly normal part of having a talent.

It's time for a new form factor to shake up the industry. Mobile devices are getting far too bulky.

See Cicret's wristband.[1] This is a revolutionary concept. The video is fake. But there are people plugging away to make it real.

They're going to have the battery life problem from hell, projecting that image in daylight. As it gets closer to reality, it's getting bulkier. But they claim they need to raise $500K, and are 94% of the way there.

This might be the next Pebble. Or the next uBeam. It may be a hoax. But it's a good concept.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J7GpVQCfms [2] https://cicret.com

This looks like it enables even more complex UI interactions, even if the device looks simpler. Also, this is going to suck on those with darker skin.

It might work better on darker skin. You need more projector power, but you get better contrast.

Apple, like Rolex, may not need a Next Big Thing. Rolex still sells their 1950s Rolex Submariner. It costs over 10x as much in constant dollars now, since it's a status symbol rather than a useful tool for divers.

How do companies in the status symbol business disrupt each other ? There must have been some such cases.

Happens occasionally in the fashion industry. Coco Chanel invented sportswear. Mary Quant invented the miniskirt.

A 1950's rolex is still made of gold and tells the time an iPhone6 will probably be landfill in 6 or 7 years.

I work on mechanical watches. Rolex watches, along with most high end watch manufactures, is they were built to be worked on. They are designed to be taken apart, cleaned, and oiled. I love working on any Rolex. The parts just fall into place. Rolex made a great product. They really don't need "the next big thing". They made a good product, and didn't muck it up.

That said, since the average owner of a Rolex knows nothing about Watch Repair/Servicing; Rolex decided to make getting parts a pain. Essentially, Rolex wants you to send the watch to the factory for service, and repair. At factory prices.

They claim it's for quality assurance, but I feel it's just a money grab.

I wish these better watch companies didn't decide to do this. A lot of you will be buying your first nice watch. Remember, since you can't call the factory and even order a gasket; Do you really own the watch?

This will mean nothing to a lot of you. It's just a trend I don't like. I guess being American, I'm not comfortable being told what to do?

(Seiko sells parts to the public. And I'm not claiming a Rolex is not overpriced. I would never buy a new one. I'm just claiming they made a good product. A product that doesn't need an upgrade.)

I should save this article for when AAPL posts another record quarter.

It's kind of like when you're trash talking in sports and the other team just stands there and points to the scoreboard with a 100 point lead.

Posted from a 2015 Mac Book Pro

Their recent OSX releases have been terrible.

Mavericks and even Yosemite caused my 2012 Mac Book Pros to crash randomly. And then stall on restart. If Apple has 100 pts on the board, they don't deserve them.

File a bug!

http://bugreporter.apple.com

Except that other 100 point lead team only gets to play in the national league, while the other one gets to play world cup.

I only skimmed the article, but I didn't get the impression that the writer was suggesting that the changes are going to immediately result in Apple losing sales or loyal customers... They admit that Apple is still the best in the industry at providing simple solutions for their customers - just that they aren't as simple as they used to be, and there is a growing resentment of this in their loyal customer base, that could eventually bite them in the ass.

Perception is an odd thing. Microsoft under Ballmer more than doubled revenue and profits while building some successful new businesses. Still, the 00s are referred to as a "lost decade" for the company. The stock price started climbing immediately after Ballmer's resignation -- before a replacement had been chosen -- demonstrating a pretty clear "anyone but him" sentiment in the market.

So on the one hand, negative perception seems a bit silly when the company is fundamentally doing well. On the other hand, that perception is often rooted in something real.

Is there anything specific in the article with which you disagree?

If there's a next record-breaking quarter, I can't see how it will come about any time soon. They hitched their wagon to the phone market, and that market is now saturated. The only place to get market-share is from Android (I don't see how chasing sales in India are going to be sufficient, despite what Apple thinks).*

So they need their products and software to become more compelling. Has that been the trend since SJ passed away?

*I don't want to discuss the "Services" market. I doubt even Tim Cook believes that will move the needle much, even though he mentions it to placate investors.

I see confirmation bias in this post. The author ignores product lines under Steve Job's tenure such as the iMac line.

The iMac G3 celebrated 13 various configurations for example.

How much of Apple was Steve Jobs's love of simplicity and iron will not to release half-baked products, and how much was the ability to build things in ways inaccessible to other manufacturers? To say it is all simplicity is like finding Intel's advantages all in the chip designs and none in the fabs.

I swear news organizations have this type of article in their back pocket whenever they need a boost in traffic. "Apple is going out of business" seems to be something I see from multiple different organizations every few months. And I have yet to see an article with any interesting commentary.

The narrative has turned sharply against Apple

Nope. The guardian had been posting anti-Apple pieces for years, as have large sections of the tech press.

Meanwhile, most Apple services are down.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/06/02/apple-con...

If you think that is something to do with Steve Jobs being gone, you are forgetting how much worse their services were during his tenure.

I'm an Apple fan (having converted with the 2010 Macbook Air and the iPhone 4) and I am really frustrated by Apple's products these days:

- I honestly don't think the Watch is anything more than a niche product because there's really no compelling use case for it. Having another device to charge just to have a notification screen seems like a lot to pay $500+ for;

- Force Touch is (IMHO) a disaster. Steve Jobs' Apple steadfastly refused to have more than one button on the Mac mouse. I think this is a rare case where Jobs was proven wrong as the right click is just too useful. But Force Touch adds weight to the phone and cost and doesn't have a compelling use. What's worse is that there is zero discoverability.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the iPhone 7 drops this feature after the 5SE didn't have it and that would be quite an admission of failure.

- I'm constantly frustrated by Apple's apparent distaste for the Macbook Air line. When the 12" Macbook came out I thought this was the end of the line for the Air and that makes me sad as, to me, the Macbook is too much of a compromise (horrible keyboard, no feedback on the trackpad, too low power CPU, only one port which is also for power). The Macbook proved they could release an Air with a retina display if they wanted to. They clearly don't want to.

I honestly don't get Apple's hate for the Macbook Air.

- Steve Jobs famously called touch displays on laptops terrible from an ergonomic point of view. I agreed then and nothing has changed my mind. Every time I try one of these devices (eg iPad Pro with a keyboard), I wonder why anyone would want to lift their hand from the keyboard to touch something on the screen. The 13" iPad Pro has other things going for it but I just don't see an iPad as ever being a replacement for a laptop for most people. And I say this who has owned 5 iPads (including the latest 9.7" iPad Pro).

- I kept my iPhone 5 for 3 years because I hated the larger phones. I finally relented and bought the 6S under protest. Apple finally relented and released the 5SE, which I take as correcting a mistake. Some people may want larger phones. It's fine to have those. But many people don't. I expect the 5SE form factor to be a big seller for Apple.

Tim Cook seems to be a great logistics man and I think was largely responsible for building the supply chain that could build 200M+ devices a year. This includes innovations in how Apple used their cash hoard as vendor finance to get exclusive supply for awhile and cut their costs in the long term.

But Cook just isn't the visionary that Jobs was (who is?) and Apple's much vaunted simplicity does seem to have at least partially fallen by the wayside.

I just think employees aren't as scared of Tim as they were of Steve.

And all the "omerta" has gone.

> Steve Jobs famously called touch displays on laptops terrible from an ergonomic point of view. I agreed then and nothing has changed my mind.

Speak for yourself. You can only take my touchscreen ultrabook out of my cold dead hands. I've loved touch screens since the Psion 5 (http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/why-the-psion-series-...) - I need both a keyboard and touch screen.

I just point to where I want to go on the screen - and scroll and click. Moving the hand out to an external mouse or down to the touchpad is soooo last millennium.

I don't like Force Touch on my MacBook Pro. I loved being able to lightly tap on the touchpad instead of having to click. I don't get why this was worth having more levels of gradation in fast-forwarding through videos.

Just in case you weren't aware: you can turn off Force Touch and turn on "Tap to click" in System Preferences > Trackpad.

As another fan of apple(Having converted with the first Intel MBP in 2005, and having bought the original iPhone on launch day), I think your arguments all have some validity, however claiming it has something to do with Jobs being gone is just remembering with rose colored glasses.

Apple Watch: This is the only case I might agree we've lost simplicity. I don't think it's a bad product, however removing apps and only leaving glances and complications would've been much simpler and met 90% of the use cases for people. I do think with Jobs there's a chance we would've got less functionality and features, which would've left people less confused about how to use it or what it's for. I don't think it's entirely because Jobs is a visionary, but he was very good at saying no to frivolous things, and creating a story for a product.

Force Touch: This is nothing new. Look at the squeeze feature on the mighty mouse, hot corners, multi touch gestures on the magic mouse and the trackpad. All these things existed in the Jobs era. Power user features are good, so long as they aren't necessary. Considering it's been added to the apple watch and pretty much all the new trackpads, I don't think it's going away. I do agree however it's not discoverable, and possibly not that useful, but I don't think jobs would've killed it.

MBA: The complaints with the MacBook are the same ones people made about the MBA when it launched. If you need more than what the future of portable computers offer, get a rMBP. Same way when the MBA came out they still offered a Pro line. The only argument for the MBA is to hit an entry level price point, which ironically was almost never a focus during the Jobs era.

5SE: The launch of the 6 showed a huge increase in sales, which seems to indicate pent up demand. I think the majority of people will buy the larger form factors, but I'm glad they're offering more size options. Again this is nothing new for large product categories. The iPod had a Nano, Mini, and Classic. The powerbook had a 12, 15, and 17. The iMac was once offered in 17, 20, and 24. I actually think this is a good concise strategy. You first decide what size phone you want, then how much storage you want.

Oh, I somehow also missed the touch screens with keyboards item. Which I agree with, however keep in mind the original iPad supported bluetooth keyboards. Not to mention they launched it with this guy: http://www.imore.com/sites/imore.com/files/styles/larger/pub...

Just an FYI

>>> Every time I try one of these devices (eg iPad Pro with a keyboard), I wonder why anyone would want to lift their hand from the keyboard to touch something on the screen.

As someone with one of those devices, that's not how it works. At all.

You don't touch the screen when using a keyboard, and viceversa, you just detach the screen. Different use cases. And it works.

>>> Some people may want larger phones. It's fine to have those. But many people don't. I expect the 5SE form factor to be a big seller for Apple.

Even if SE sells well, wasn't the iPhone 6 the biggest selling iPhone though? People obviously wanted bigger screens for years. You can't please everyone of course, it's impossible, but the trend is clear.

Remember when people complained the iPhone 5 was too big and the iPhone 4 was the perfect size?

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