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Comment by further_tech | Hacker News Reader

At its core, Christians are defined by fraternity, equality, goodness, etc.

Maybe some atheists also have these, but there's not a guarantee all act this way.

IMO, before founding an "atheist church", I'd at least establish "secular values" and find a community around it.

EDIT: I was called a "delusional idiot" for claiming Christians are defined by fraternity, equality, goodness.

I'm referring to the SYSTEM OF VALUES. Something must be aspired for and desired in social interactions. I'm well aware of "hypocritical Christians", it has nothing to do with them.

If you cannot understand that, I'm not a "delusional idiot"; you are just ignorant.

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Maybe some Christians have those, but -- and I say this as a Christian -- it's far from true that all members of Christian faith traditions have those.

So you haven't really pointed to a real difference.

> I'm referring to the SYSTEM OF VALUES. I'm well aware of "hypocritical Christians", it has nothing to do with them.

No true Scotsman!

No. Please read more intelligently.

I didn't use it to refer to "true Christians", but as an ontological description of Christianity.

I believe you'll find christianity to be largely defined by the Nicene Creed and/or Apostles' Creed, which is to say defined by believing in Christ.

The goalposts have to move within the conversation for a "no true Scotsman" to apply. On the contrary, establishing language that lets us distinguish between groups of people is a healthy way to promote understanding.

I remember my mother telling stories about her mother putting out her cigarette in the car and spraying perfume on herself and her kids before going to church every sunday so that no one would know she was smoking.

The thing is, when adherence to a community is enforced (even if just through social pressure), you'll get a lot of uncommitted people who might even wish they would share the values, but don't.

Atheists as a whole might be less likely to share a system of values, but those who sought and joined such an organization of their own volition (and not because their family dragged them to church every Sunday) are extremely likely to shared its values.

There is no force to join a religious community. In this case, people have been doing this to deal with the alienation they face.

Also, your second argument is ridiculous.

Say you and me go to a party. We both decided this on our own. That doesn't mean we share A SINGLE value.

>There is no force to join a religious community.

I don't want to be rude, so instead of replying I'll just bow out of this conversation. Farewell.

> That doesn't mean we share A SINGLE value.

You probably value a good party, right?

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