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Comment by twoquestions | Hacker News Reader

The problem with church is that it demands submission in exchange for community. Not only believe this way, but dress this way, eat this way, vote this way, and if you're in any way different you're as cut off as you would be if you stayed home, and if you're having hard times you must have done something to deserve it.

I'm from Ohio so it may be different up here, but that's my experience.

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"demands submission in exchange for community" - that's a fantastic way of phrasing it. I'll be using that in the future :-)

Islam is very explicit about this; the name actually means “submission”. In fairness to religion, all social groupings require their members to be bound by some form of commonality. Ideally, the shared beliefs/interests/ideology be as inclusive as possible but there is always some out-group.

Churches tend to be all shapes and sizes. The traditional ones are usually closer to what you're describing but there are many that are more low key to avoid exactly what you are describing.

And still by definition require you to believe in their idol(s).

I don't think that that is a trait derived or unique to Christianity. I think that happens in all groups be they religious or secular, where people find that they can make a majority of the group happy by instituting common standards of behaviour. It can start with something like a Code of Conduct with good rules like "clothes mandatory", but people don't know when to stop, and 2000 years later you end up with modern church rules.

"The problem with church..."

There are a wide spectrum of beliefs and interpretations across denominations, far beyond Orthodox , liberal, etc. And the quality of the delivery is still up to the people at the pulpit. A bad experience at one church or denomination should not be a generalization of all churches/religions.

If you feel that something is being imposed on you, that particular church may not be the best fit for you. Or you may be hearing something that is at conflict with the ego, or with an area of personal struggle.

Also YMMV depending on if you view church is a consumer good/service, versus a lifelong shared experience of learning and of putting others before self.

The degree to which that is true varies not just regionally but by individual church (not just denomination/tradition/sect, but individual parish/congregation.)

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