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Comment by nharada | Hacker News Reader

The middle class STARTS at 150K?

I think of middle class in silicon valley starting at $250,000 honestly. $150,000 seems low based on the housing costs.

In Silicon Valley, yes.

Yeah, I think this is a bit exaggerated. Housing is a lot more expensive in Palo Alto/Silicon Valley than the rest of the US - but not that much.

Palo Alto/Mountain View is double digit percentage higher than places an hour or two out -- assuming non-commute hours. But, Santa Cruz to Marin, not that wildly different.

Although, the article mentions "family" making 150k-250k. So this implies two incomes, so each person making 75k-125k, which seems like a more accurate reflection of middle class in SV.

Single family homes with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1,500 sq ft, 2000 sq ft yard, built after 1980, recently sold prices on zillow:

Palo Alto: Averages roughly $4,000,000.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Palo-Alto-CA/fsba,fsbo_...

Austin, Texas: Averages roughly $400,000 (10x less)

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Austin-TX/fsba,fsbo_lt/...

Orlando, Florida: Averages roughly $400,000 (10x less)

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Orlando-FL/fsba,fsbo_lt...

Chicago, Illinois: Averages roughly $800,000 (5x less)

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Chicago-IL/fsba,fsbo_lt...

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Averages roughly $400,000 (10x less)

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Philadelphia-PA/fsba,fs...

Seattle, Washington: Averages roughly $1,000,000 (4x less)

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Seattle-WA/fsba,fsbo_lt...

Palo Alto is definitely _much_ more expensive.

Even your cheapest examples are expensive. It's about $150,000 ($100,000 to $250,000) in Palm Bay, FL. That's normal peaceful USA, with tech jobs and even kind of near the beach, not some decaying hellhole.

So make that a factor of 30, without even looking at bad places.

Nice, that's a great deal! What's the percentage drop in salary an experienced software engineer would have if moving there?

It's really hard to say, but certainly nothing compared to the savings. It depends on what you mean by experience. :-)

Glassdoor says that Harris pays $113,051 for a "Software Engineer IV". Most Harris jobs are in that area.

Payscale says $96,955 for a "Senior Software Engineer" in Melbourne, the next town over. Hmmm, Palo Alto is only $135,305 for this. That's less than 40% extra, but you're paying 3000% extra for the house.

Note that overtime is not normal for the area. You work 40 hours. Spend the rest of the time with your family.

Also note that everything else is cheaper too. There is no state income tax. The sales tax is 6.5%. Power is about $96 per month for those using 1000 kWh per month, and $137 for those using 1400 kWh per month. You'd pay 20% more in Palo Alto. Gasoline is dirt cheap: it's only $2.14 in Palm Bay, but about $3.05 (large variation) in Palo Alto. I could go on forever really, but it gets silly comparing everything from nail polish to turnips.

Those are expensive houses. Just got my brand new 5 bedroom, 3600 square foot house in a great school district in Atlanta suburbs for $360k.

And yes, we have a tech industry.

No, it's not exaggerated. Housing prices on the peninsula (PA/MW in particular) are so far outside of the distribution for the rest of the country, it's not even funny. And it's not just the housing that is significantly more expensive. Schools, daycare, anything that involves kids is easily 2x as expensive around Palo Alto.

Saying that middle class in PA starts at $250K sounds about right. It is very difficult to have a family in the area for less than that.

Source: I recently moved from Mountain View to the Midwest (family of 4). My wife and I have talked a lot about moving back, but we decided that a minimum salary level would likely need to be above $250K for us to even consider it.

I wouldn't say it is that far out of the distribution of NYC. It is very far from the middle of Iowa, but there is at least NYC to share the absurd housing price with :)

NYC or Manhattan? Manhattan is probably around the same as Palo Alto, but that's only a tiny portion of NYC.

Ya I guess that is the bigger difference. NYC you travel less far to find sanity than Palo Alto.

I could literally rent a 4br/2ba apartment in my hometown in BFE Midwest for about $300/month less than I'm paying for a room in the East Bay.

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