An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories | Hacker News Reader

An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

smithsonianmag.com

43 pointssamclemens51 comments

I find these pretty disturbing. I like to think I'd never have stood by while someone enslaved someone else. But the banality of these ads makes it all seem quite commonplace and acceptable. Wicked times.

The modern prison-industrial complex is also disturbing if you look at the relative representation of different population segments.

One thing to note, the same types of people who were slave drivers are still here. They have as little respect for another humans life as they always have, judging other peoples well being as worth nothing. You can see it when they make statements similar to 'I earned what I have so I deserve it, poor people deserve nothing, especially not from my pocket.' They are willing to let people die, although they may try to paper it over with statements like 'the dignity of work' to enforce slave like conditions.

Nearly all professionals in the west are in that position. They could give away most of their income to save desperately poor people, but they feel that they deserve it for themselves. It's a very broad blurry line between evil and respectable. Mostly dependent on whatever popular culture tells us it should be.

Yes, good point. I think the best way to go around it is supporting systems that prevent people having unnecessary horrible positions in life, starting at country or even state wide, and hopefully worldwide systems in the future. Also to help this, getting people to identify what sort of arguments value another persons life as nothing, is a great way of diffusing harmful ideas. It is that obvious that it has been mentioned in ancient times, such as the biblical "You will be judged as you have judged others". Putting an emphasis on the value of a persons life other than what can be taken from them, should support these better systems.

Back to what you have put forward, yes, it is very easy to forget the people who you just don't see.

I found the one that doubled as an ad comical

"Please return him to my house on Fouche St., which is next to Julie St. WHO HAS FOR SALE one woman"

I read it in Stewie's voice

Right. Slavery. Comical.

No..

Slavery is still going on. All the scandals in England? A lot of that was sex slavery.

For the life of me I don't get how society honestly thinks "Oh ~50-200 years ago humanity was evil but now we're enlightened and good"...

    > All the scandals in England?
    > A lot of that was sex slavery.

What?

Here's recent labor slavery in Scotland

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/may/28/sl...

The victims feared being killed if they escaped back to their homes, so I'd say it's more than just "wage slavery".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit...

Conflating child abuse and the subsequent government cock-up in to investigating it, with an institutionalised implementation of slavery with the full weight of the judiciary behind it, requires quite some imagination.

Sure; I'm not agreeing with his position, just supplying the background.

> But the banality of these ads makes it all seem quite commonplace and acceptable.

Yeah. Many bad things are commonplace and acceptable until progress marches on unfortunately. The majority has a bad habit of lacking empathy for those more vulnerable than themselves.

Slavery. Equal rights for minorities. Even the War on Drugs or providing access to proper care for women's health has abuses that are largely ignored because most people aren't regularly impacted in ways that motivates them to action.

The system has always been pretty wicked to those powerless to resist it.

Consider - what are we doing now that future generations will look back on and express the same sentiment?

Destroying the planet. You could say that's worse than slavery.

Only if it's harmful to people. We're not entirely sure of the extent of that yet. If not then we're not destroying it, just modifying it.

Farm animals

with a couple hundred years distance we could also recognise the early 21st century as an appalling nightmare.

Ways to contribute to stop 21st century slavery here:

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/30/chariti...

I like to think I'd never have stood by while someone enslaved someone else.

You do standby while millions are enslaved.

The United Nations estimates that roughly 27 to 30 million individuals are currently caught in the slave trade industry.

For context there were 3,950,528 slaves in the US in 1860.

Taxes are involuntary and people are locked in prison for not paying them, that is resembling a slavery. Some rationalization for slavery was similar too, e.g. people thought that it's not possible to have prosperity without enslavement.

Probably in the future present times will be seen as wicked too.

Something being involuntary does not make it 'resemble' chattel slavery. It takes a fair bit more than simply not paying your taxes to end up in prison. Your children don't go to prison if you don't pay your taxes.

Yes, it's more similar to a forced labor slavery, than chattel slavery. The forced labor convention (which for some reason wasn't ratified by US) specifically makes exception for civic obligations and compulsory military service because they are fitting the definition.

Children in this analogy forced to go to prison too, when they reach 18 years and refuse their taxes.

It's still not much of an analogy unless you believe that, say, driving on the wrong side of the road, uninsured and without a license is somehow comparable to any form of slavery.

Am I correct that you invoke a social contract as a justification for involuntary actions?

1) You are forced into this contract without your consent.

2) You can't quit this contract with your property intact.

This conditions wouldn't be enforceable if they were between ordinary parties, especially when there is inequality of bargaining power, why do they hold between a state and a person?

1) The IRS does not literally rape people as happened under American chattel slavery

2) Your analogy also has the problem that without taxes, it would not be possible to fund an organization that prevents other organizations from coming in and taxing you (aka "protection money"). Can point to a society of more than 500,000 members that has existed without taxes? I can point to several pre-1865 societies without slavery.

I agree that arguments against slavery were stronger in 1865, than against taxes, but absence of something is a bad predictor about possibility. You couldn't point to a liberal democracy before 18th century too.

On its own, absence is a bad argument. But combined with presenting a problem (that people will spontaneously form a government and collect taxes under threat of kneecapping) it is a stronger argument.

Property enforcement is just as involuntary as taxation.

Restriction of freedom is an inevitable consequence of scarcity. People cannot have everything they want, so you have to have some system which decides who gets what, and punishes people who try to step outside it.

Whether you're locking someone up for theft or tax evasion, it's equally coercive.

Yes, the property enforcement is involuntary, but in the absence of property slavery is not unethical. If there is no property, then why slaves have a better claim to their body and work, than someone else?

Either the idea of property is accepted implicitly, or it is ethical to enslave in some situations.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning? Are you suggesting that control of ones labour is inextricably linked to property rights?

Being able to decide how to spend your time, and having exclusive access to particular resources are completely separate things.

Some of the ads have a little icon that shows a slave running away. Like it's a particular category of classified ad.

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