> by awarding punitive damages the court was trying (and succeeded) to send a message about what is and is not acceptable.
The jury decides whether the lawsuit is warranted and how much to award. The court can alter this to try to make a statement (and in the case I referenced, the court reduced damages in each judgement).
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restau...
"Liebeck sought to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her actual and anticipated expenses. Her past medical expenses were $10,500; her anticipated future medical expenses were approximately $2,500; and her daughter's loss of income was approximately $5,000 for a total of approximately $18,000. Instead, the company offered only $800. When McDonald's refused to raise its offer, Liebeck retained Texas attorney Reed Morgan. Morgan filed suit in New Mexico District Court accusing McDonald's of "gross negligence" for selling coffee that was "unreasonably dangerous" and "defectively manufactured". McDonald's refused Morgan's offer to settle for $90,000. Morgan offered to settle for $300,000, and a mediator suggested $225,000 just before trial, but McDonald's refused these final pre-trial attempts to settle."
Maybe I'm just being too European.
Every coffee you've ever had in your life was a lower temperature than what McDonald's was serving up. They were serving super-heated coffee that is hotter and thus more dangerous than what you would make at home. A typical temperature for coffee is 75C -- that's the temperature it'll come out as from your standard automatic drip coffee maker. McDonald's was serving it at 95C, which required serious post-brewing heating to achieve. They admitted that this was wrong and stopped doing it, and to really drive that point home, no one else serves coffee that dangerously hot. You could burn a layer off your tongue in one ill-conceived first sip. The only reason you think this isn't a big deal is because you haven't been exposed to it.
This is a pretty sketchy assertion. Instant coffee is generally made from water you just boiled yourself.
https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts "McDonald’s operations manual required the franchisee to hold its coffee at 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit. Coffee at that temperature, if spilled, causes third-degree burns in three to seven seconds."
I also highly recommend watching this movie which was a very interesting look at the erosion of consumer rights driven by a coordinate corporate PR campaign/agenda: http://www.hotcoffeethemovie.com/Default.asp
I've spilled boiling water on myself occasionally. Given the freedom of movement you generally have in your kitchen that you don't have while buckled in to a car, I hope it doesn't surprise you that I wash it off in less than three seconds. It's hot!
I've also touched hot cookie sheets and the like, which obviously go well above 212 fahrenheit. That's common; what's not common is maintaining the contact for longer than your flinch reflex takes to kick in.
Ok, I'm not exactly sure what we're really disputing here. To clarify, I was just agreeing with the sentiment of GP's claim that "every cup of coffee you've ever had in your life was at a lower temperature than what McDonald's was serving up". You're right that as a literal statement it is probably not true.
The real point is whether McDonald's coffee was being served at an unreasonably hot temperature. Based on what I saw in the movie, and read on the Consumer Attorney's of California website, and based on my experience with current/post-lawsuit McDonald's coffee temperatures (which I still find exceedingly hot), I find it entirely believable that the coffee was served at an unreasonably hot temperature.
More context:
> Mrs. Liebeck’s injuries were far from frivolous. She was wearing sweatpants that absorbed the coffee and kept it against her skin. She suffered third-degree burns (the most serious kind) and required skin grafts on her inner thighs and elsewhere.
Liebeck’s case was far from an isolated event. McDonald’s had received more than 700 previous reports of injury from its coffee, including reports of third-degree burns, and had paid settlements in some cases.
Mrs. Liebeck offered to settle the case for $20,000 to cover her medical expenses and lost income. But McDonald’s never offered more than $800, so the case went to trial. The jury found Mrs. Liebeck to be partially at fault for her injuries, reducing the compensation for her injuries accordingly. But the jury’s punitive damages award made headlines — upset by McDonald’s unwillingness to correct a policy despite hundreds of people suffering injuries, they awarded Liebeck the equivalent of two days’ worth of revenue from coffee sales for the restaurant chain.
> Liebeck’s case was far from an isolated event. McDonald’s had received more than 700 previous reports of injury from its coffee, including reports of third-degree burns, and had paid settlements in some cases.
And as for the temperature of instant coffee, feel free to use a thermometer and verify it for yourself. It will not be 95C. The temperature is reduced from pouring it into a room temperature cup and also from stirring a room temperature substance into it. And that's still a worst-case scenario; McDonald's coffee, which is not instant, should be less hot than that, not more.
When I make coffee at home, I can immediately take a sip of it within a few seconds of pouring it into a mug, without burning my mouth. If I accidentally poured such a mug all over myself I would likely not sustain extensive third degree burns. Coffee at Starbucks is served at a similar temperature -- it is certainly not kept super-heated at a level that will scald you if touched.
The thing I don't understand is, why are you so anti-safety? Why do you have such an averse reaction to solving a very basic safety problem? Products that you buy should not be pointlessly and unnecessarily unsafe in unexpected ways.
> The thing I don't understand is, why are you so anti-safety? Why do you have such an averse reaction to solving a very basic safety problem?
You seem to have me confused with someone else. Check the username before you attribute a comment to me. I promise you that I'm only using the one account.
> When I make coffee at home, I can immediately take a sip of it within a few seconds of pouring it into a mug, without burning my mouth. If I accidentally poured such a mug all over myself I would likely not sustain extensive third degree burns.
I don't drink coffee. But when I make tea at home, I can almost immediately take a sip from a spoonful. I can't actually drink it from the mug because it is much too hot. If I poured it all over my lap and then sat in it until it cooled, I would be seriously injured, yes.