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Comment by Ambroos | Hacker News Reader

I get that Microsoft wants to get people to upgrade, but forcing it like this is just plain rude

Reality is, there are still driver issues on older hardware (especially laptops) with Windows 10. Some of my friends get random hangs since upgrading. My grandma's sister had her laptop upgraded and can't find anything anymore.

It's a huge download and a huge change in how your computer works. This is not something you should just force on your users by tricking them to install it. Nudges and prompts are fine by me. Pushing it as an opt-out thing you have to actively cancel is just awful.

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My girlfriend's laptop touchpad died upon update. After stopping her panic I had to enable using arrow keys for the cursor movement (getting to this menu without using said cursor was interesting..) and then roll back the "upgrade" using arrow keys.

Why was getting to the menu interesting, keyboard navigation in windows is a pretty well established paradigm, it may take marginally longer than you're used to but there are many people who primarily use their computer with the keyboard only.

Probably because you're telling someone who has only ever used a mouse or trackpad to get to an interior settings screen without using a mouse or trackpad. Just because "many people" do something doesn't make it easy or intuitive to someone who has never done it.

Microsoft gets a lot of flack for these breaking updates, but I wonder why more criticism isn't directed at manufacturers who pack laptops full of obscure and poorly-written drivers.

Because, like Google with Android, Microsoft enable this behaviour. They deserve to take the flak.

I went back to 7 twice now. My PC(which is a really modern machine, 4-th gen Core i5+GTX780) doesn't want to stay asleep with windows 10. It just wakes up in the middle of the night, "powercfg -lastwake" just shows "unknown", no one has any idea why that happens, only going back to Windows 7 solves the issue.

Not to mention annoying forced UI tweaks that nobody asked for - why does the cursor snap to the corner when moving between monitors? It's beyond infuriating - but at least in win 8 you could disable that through a registry setting. In Win 10, sorry, you can't. W

Why is the show desktop button literally 2 pixels wide now? Trying to hit it when it's on the edge between two monitors is close to impossible.

Also Start menu search takes much longer than it did on windows 7, and it's much less accurate.

Holy shit this My brand new (somewhat expensive D:) laptop tries to commit sudoku any time I look away. I've had it for less than a month and already I've taken it out of laptop bag scorching hot twice - because it decided to wake up for no reason and then stay running with no air...

> commit sudoku Well that's an interesting feature.

Shame no one told it there are no 1 to 9 bills :P Kind of feels like it does with real money, because obviously the manufacturer will just blame me for it cooking itself

It's not just older hardware, I upgraded an 2015 HP Stream Mini to Windows 10 and it died during the install after it had wiped Windows 8 essentially bricking the computer.

The upgrade also has the nasty tendency to forget to restore your files after the upgrade.

I had to restart 1 computer 5 times before windows 10 magically decided it's going to restore my files now so I don't have to install and configure everything again.

I'm moving everything over to Linux now anyway this latest fiasco with windows made it clear to me that it has no future.

The only annoying thing is that I need to run adobe in a virtual machine.

Similar situation: I have special purpose use cases for Windows, and so I actually have more Windows stuff at work now than ever, but it's because the core is starting to fragment and these special use cases are getting pushed out to stand-alone machines while non-Windows systems are taking over future development.

It reminds me of "beating will continue until morale improves". You need to get people to want to upgrade.

Should MS just wait until those people get their bank accounts emptied and their data held for ransom?

This seems like the nicer option.

So instead of solidifying a good product, they should just keep forcing people to use a shitty product that they clearly don't want?

Why is windows 10 a shitty product?

Why is windows 7 a good product?

Because people's computers work on Windows 8, and stop working after "upgrading" to windows 10. Those people don't care that it's a 3rd party driver causing the problem. (If it is; it's hard to know sometimes.)

Here's one example, but there are plenty of others: https://www.asus.com/uk/Notebooks/ASUS_EeeBook_X205TA/HelpDe...

Here's the faqs that begin "After installing Windows 10".

https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1016168/

https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1016490/

https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1016169/

https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1013137/

https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1015923/

https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1015947/

https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1015970/

And it affects network connectivity, so you'll need to use a different machine to look find these FAQs: https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1015954/

Driver issues caused by the OEMs incompetence make the computer the shitty product, not windows.

We don't blame microsoft for superfish either, do we? Or hard drive failures?

As long as it's Microsoft causing the upgrade prompt, it's their problem. As long as the (terrible) drivers worked before the upgrade, it should check that drivers are available for the hardware before trying to go through with the upgrade.

There's an analogous situation with Android phones; Google doesn't try to upgrade every phone to the newest release, because they can't guarantee it will work afterwards.

I'd still blame the OEMs, of course, when the hardware stops working after installing from a retail Windows 10 disc. But in that case it was from a user-initiated action, at least.

Do the OEMs suddenly not have a responsibility to keep their drivers working on the OS they picked?

>it should check that drivers are available for the hardware before trying to go through with the upgrade

From what I've gathered the issue tends to be with drivers not working, rather than not existing. This is again entirely the OEMs fault, there isn't any feasible way for MSFT to verify that the drivers aren't broken.

These OEMs knew very well that microsoft was going to do this but still neglected to fix their drivers.

I've never even used 10 and I can tell you some of the complaints about it:

* bad driver support

* invasive telemetry

* missing accounts/files after upgrading

* slow, wonky UI

These are well known problems even to me.

I personally don't think 7 was "good", but it was tolerable. A lot of people clearly don't want 10, but are being tricked into installing it. Why not just extend the product people are happy with?

For drivers you should blame your OEM instead of pretending that MS completely ignored them when rolling this out.

AFAIK the telemetry has mostly been backported.

I don't really know about the missing files, but it's certainly been a common complaint across all new windows releases. Usually the cause has been user error.

I personally find the windows 10 UI to be a significant improvement.

>Why not just extend the product people are happy with?

And that is how you end up with another XP fiasco.

Your purposely ignoring my point though: People have a working product. Why push them to a non-working product, when they clearly don't want it?

Maintain the current product, take the time to make the product work, and make it appealing to them, then you won't have to push them.

From my previous comment:

>And that is how you end up with another XP fiasco.

I hate windows 10 because before every version of windows could run spelunky without lag. Now I can barely get a consistent 54 fps on my surface. That really sucks.

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