Comment by jpfr | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jpfr | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

In todays world, Holland is tiny. It cannot make many meaningful decisions on an international level. How would Holland negotiate with the USA or Russia about trade issues? Well, they couldn't. They'd have to concede to any terms that are dictated from the outside. And like that, every European country on its own would be marginalized over the years.

Together, they at least have a chance. European countries are always debating and don't speak with a single voice yet. But at least there is a chance for survival.

   Just look at my country, Holland. Pretty much all important decisions are made by
   the EU. An example: we cannot control our own borders. We cannot decide how many
   immigrants we want to allow. The EU wants to force quotas on countries and if they
   don't accept the quotas, they want to give the countries fines.

Exactly. There are a million refugees in Europe. And you cannot just send back refugees from war zones as per international law. Somebody has to take them up. Europe has 500 million inhabitants. So there would be 0.2% refugees (i.e. "no problem") if they were properly distributed. Europe is community. Everybody profits from being a member. But every member has to carry some of the weight.

The EEA said hai, also Norway and Switzerland say nice to meet ya'll.

The Netherlands have a higher GDP than Turkey, what coolaid have you drank that you think that all of a sudden the Netherlands which is still a maritime superpower as far as trading goes cannot some how negotiate a trading agreement with the US? What enemy is encroaching on European borders that some how countries in the top 20 most developed nations can no longer stand on their own? Some how Canada, South Korea, Turkey and Israel can manage their economies, borders, and trade just fine but France or the Netherlands can't?

P.S. While not trying to stir anything no international law actually compels the EU to take in anything close to those numbers of refugees, those who come from N. Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan et al. are considered "economic migrants", those who actually come from war zones like Syria are not protected by international law since they've went through multiple countries mainly Turkey before they've reached the EU. And while the EU can and should help the resettlement of refugees it's also untrue to say that some how international law mandates it, international law does not allow a refugees to pick and choose where they want to be settled, if they want the protection they must register and ask for asylum in the first country outside of the conflict zone that they've been assigned too.

However the refugees currently don't even want to settle in any EU country, they specifically refused registration until they reach the UK, Germany, or Sweden, they constantly fight the police in Greece, Italy, France and other locations when they attempt to register them.

> what coolaid have you drank

This breaks the HN guidelines, which ask you not to call names in arguments. It's particularly important not to do so on divisive topics like this one.

That's not name calling it's an idiom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

It implies mindless cultism, which (when applied to someone else's view) is certainly name-calling.

>How would Holland negotiate with the USA or Russia about trade issues?

I'd imagine having one of the largest ports in the world, which is Rotterdam, is a big leverage.

Not so sure about that. Having either of the two most important sea passages didn't do much good for Panama or Egypt in terms of international power.

Besides, being out of the EU, Rotterdam port wouldn't be as attractive as an European entry/exit port. Taxes and tariffs would make it less competitive.

If the Netherlands was no longer part of the EU, and thus lacked the low-friction connections to the European economies by rail and other transport that currently exist, Rotterdam would likely start to decline in size and be supplanted by a port that was within the EU.

I really doubt this would be the case.

> In todays world, Holland is tiny

Yes, but there is no correlation between the size of a country and the standard of living of its inhabitants. The people of India, Brazil or Nigeria is not better off than the people of Norway, Singapore or Switzerland.

And standard of living doesn't correlate well to geopolitical/economic power which is what GP was talking about with being able to get good terms in trade negotiations.

Yeah, but India has more than a billion people and they have nukes. As the parent comment said, Holland is tiny and not only geographically or in population.

- It's barely in the top 40 military world powers: http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-det...

- It's 17th on GDP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... (actually below India and Brazil and not so far from Nigeria)

As part of the EU, Dutch people live in the (arguably) world's biggest economy. Outside the EU, they're just 17th and far from most of their neighbours.

You punch above your weight in football though :)

The EU is far from perfect, but we're the ones building it.

Which is to compare with the listing on this page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

Edit: I'm not Dutch by the way

That's the thing: Monaco, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein are not even local players. Others in the top of the list are not global players: Norway, Qatar, etc

India and Brazil have very low GDP per capita, but they're absolute weight is so big that they're world players (more India than Brazil if you ask me), at least compared to rich countries like Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, etc

Reply on news.ycombinator.com