Hacker News Reader

Comment by CoreDumpling | Hacker News Reader

In the "real" world, you're also welcome to buy from a different store when you have different values from the vendor. Nobody can force you to buy from Target when you're happy with what's carried by WalMart. You can't do this with the App Store, and Apple goes out of its way to prevent you from loading software from elsewhere.

On top of that, the inconsistency of the enforcement of App Store guidelines and the moving target set by Apple makes it seem like they are suffering from some growing pains. It doesn't look like they've really made up their mind about what impression they want people to get, other than some "slick" user experience.

Bottom line is that on top of dealing with the unpredictable market out there, developers also have to put up with a very fickle supply chain with no alternative channels. I'll pass.

View on HN

Are there not other phones available?

Sure. But none of them support the applications these developers have already built.

It's one thing for Apple to set guidelines on what it's going to allow in the store. It's another thing entirely for it to not set guidelines, but instead force developers to figure out for themselves what is allowed based on which apps have already been accepted. Now Apple is changing the rules on the fly, so even apps that historically have been acceptable may not be allowed in.

If Apple wanted to keep these promotional spammy apps out, it should have started blocking them from the start, before people started building businesses around them.

Now I'm wondering how long it will be before Apple starts removing the many thousands of book applications on the App Store, now that it has its own official Books app.

Good point. That's similar to being upset that you can only buy things from WalMart at WalMart.

@CoreDumpling: I agree that consistency would be better, but which real-world store would you say is consistent with what they'll have? And which will tell you what their qualifications are for allowing products in?

Wal-Mart makes sudden moves and suppliers lose. Welcome to business. Apple is huge. They're providing a product that people are loving. But yeah you can shop wherever, it's cool, the formats are open.

That's part of why I liked bit about WalMart in the comment. They do the same thing, but on a larger, more secretive, more spastic way. They literally create and destroy entire business categories with a single shift in focus.

I'm not sure I understand your position. At the risk of beating a dead horse with another contrived analogy, in my opinion dealing with the App Store as the only channel for apps is akin to buying a house and being forced to get all my furniture and housewares at Crate & Barrel. On top of that, the house is built such that anything I buy from another retailer either won't fit in the door or might unexpectedly cause the roof to collapse.

I'll concede your point that real-world stores can be just as difficult to work with, if not even more so, but this doesn't change the fact that having the App Store as the sole arbiter of what's allowed is introducing artificial barriers to restrict consumer choice. Even WalMart has to deal with competition from other distributors.

I don't mind beating dead horses, and this strikes me as being quite civil and interesting, so I'm all for continuing.

They're artificial barriers, certainly. And I'd love an open App Store, though I understand their reasons for keeping it locked down. The worst barrier they have right now, IMO, is the single-carrier barrier, which I really think is flat-out wrong. But the USA is rather backwards when it comes to cell phones.

As to the WalMart / other contrived analogy, which I admit my comment was rather lacking in content, lets try another comparison. The DS only plays DS games (especially with the DSi now, which loses the GBA slot). However, not only is that the same restriction, it's even worse because getting permission to sell your game is an absolute nightmare if you're not big, and the development tools are far more expensive.

To make the comparison stronger, and the App Store's position worse, the DS has sold three times as many units than the iPhone, though probably not as many cartridges as apps. But that's physical vs digital distribution for ya. How often do you hear about the DS and its far tighter distribution chain, as opposed to the iPhone? Granted, the App Store has been changing lately, but the criticism hasn't abated since day 1.

For WalMart in particular, I'd say it's closer to buying a DVD player from WalMart, and having it only play DVDs sold at WalMart. It'd certainly suck for people trying to sell things, but they carry 99.9% of what people buy anyway, so most of the buyers won't mind (and it may be worth avoiding the huge amounts of porn that might appear there otherwise). And there are other options, like Android phones, Blackberry / PalmOS based phones, etc, which match other retail options.

Fair point. I've basically resigned myself to the fact that Apple, Nintendo, etc. are happily raking in the green from developers who are willing to play by their rules and consumers who are content with living in their walled gardens, and that their relationship with developers who desire more flexibility should be left at a healthy mutual disregard.

Yeah, same here. It's part of why I really like the new focus on indie developers. It might flatten things a bit.

For some reason I'm thinking of civil libertarians. Can't they just find some other country?

Can't they just find some other country?

You give me the "other country" and I'll move there tomorrow. Even if it's cold there.

I think Iceland is open.

Or do we have to wait for the army of clones first?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com