Which is precisely the point -- Lovecruft, justifiably, had no way of knowing what the government operatives had in mind, and wanted from her; whether it was something comparatively insipid and harmless (just some junior investigators throwing darts, and checking boxes on a list someone gave them); or something all-out insane and pernicious, like what they did to Swartz.
Would she be woken up at 6 a.m., and made to watch as agents ransacked her apartment, confiscating anything that looked like personal notes, and anything that looked like a digital device? Would she be strip-searched, and held in solitary confinement for hours (even after family and friends posted bail), or longer, with no explanation? Would she face the prospect of indefinite imprisonment if she refused to disclose the passphrases to any of her encrypted devices?
Would she be pressured into providing testimony against her friends and collaborators -- and/or "turning" outright, and becoming a paid informant? Would she hold her ground? Would she break?
Any of the above was a very real possibility. Which is why this is anything but a "non-story."
Has the FBI done this before? I could see the CIA doing this to foreign nationals, and obviously that's horrible, but has the FBI done anything like that? I'm not saying they haven't, I would just like an example or two.
Whether the FBI was involved in that particular aspect of his ordeal, I can't say.
Did you not read the article?
>Lovecruft told CNNMoney she had been willing to meet the FBI with her attorney present. But Rosenfeld was told by agents that they would circumvent him and approach Lovecruft directly.
It's also clear you didn't read the article entirely before making a comment that now acts to distract and misinform.
No it wasn't. Unless you are engaged in a criminal acts, the likelihood of the FBI arresting you are pretty damn slim. Sure it probably happens all the time, but there are 300 million Americans. The chances that it happens to any given person are nil.
The fact that the FBI reached out first is a pretty big clue that they she wasn't a target of an investigation. You don't subpoena the targets of the investigation.
But it sure sucks for the people it does happen to, and your odds sure shoot right up when FBI agents start to threaten you.
So, her situation may be anything from a help request to compelled assistance to imprisonment in making. Who knows. However, any defense lawyer would tell her to not talk to FBI alone under any circumstance or volunteer assistance that makes her look criminal if taken out of context before a jury. Her lawyer is happy to hear their questions and mediate answers. So far, they wanted to bypass him. That's reason for concern.
Yes, having personally dealt with the FBI while in the US and having been on the receiving end of some extraordinarily shady tactics from them. (I.e. MLAT requesting my arrest and claiming that I social engineered the FBIs Las Vegas field office for personal information on the agents that previously raided me) I'm very familiar how the US adversarial system works.
>So, her situation may be anything from a help request to compelled assistance to imprisonment in making. Who knows. However, any defense lawyer would tell her to not talk to FBI alone under any circumstance or volunteer assistance that makes her look criminal if taken out of context before a jury. Her lawyer is happy to hear their questions and mediate answers. So far, they wanted to bypass him. That's reason for concern.
While I certainly don't think her concerns deserve this much attention, I'm not questioning their validity. Of course you should be concerned if the FBI is trying to contact you!
But seriously, this isn't FBI agents threatening her (although trying to bypass ones lawyer is certainly unethical). This is FBI agents trying to contact her for whatever reason, that is not a threat from the FBI though.
A FBI agent coming up to you and yelling about how he's going to ruin your life is most certainly a threat, and again something which I've personally been on the receiving end of.
This is the crux of our disagreement and where I'm not totally disagreeing. We both say in various comments they might just want to talk to her. So, at this point, it can't be considered a threat with any certainty.
Given how they work, though, it's reasonable to consider it a probable threat if they (a) claim they want help, (b) want no lawyer present, and (c) [important] haven't offered or accepted immunity (at least NDA) for whatever goes on. The defense attorney on Don't Talk to Police mentioned that last one in case of IRS. "They just want to talk and not arrest/convict? Ask for immunity for whatever comes up. They left? That figures."
So, she shouldn't have fled. We have too little information to know if they intend to threaten or just get assistance. Yet, if they have malicious intent, they often don't do it the way they did you. Many of them gently lure a person in to do their own social engineering to connect remaining dots or get the golden confession for fast trial. Then, the crazy shit starts. This happens so much it should be a top consideration if they call you being nice.
So, the real question is, how does one assess at this point whether it's malicious or benign? It's an open question unfortunately. I'd consider going straight to the FBI field office with my lawyer to talk to an agent. We'd record the conversation. If it's questioning about me, I'd ask for termination of that line of questioning or immunity for anything involving me. If they won't do either, I leave and then treat them as a threat. I'd definitely get someone to talk to them first just to see how they act, though, before considering leaving.
They have consistently demonstrated their willingness to break the law when it is inconvenient for them, as well as actively working to expand their power and authority at any expense.
1. Raid of Tor Exit node - http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/04/04/472...
2. Hair Follicle Analysis - http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/21/fbi-jail-hair...
3. Manufacturing Evidence - https://theintercept.com/2016/05/05/fbi-told-cops-to-recreat...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11643246
This whole situation feels like the FBI pressuring this person so that they can get the information they want out of her while avoiding their legal obligations.
[1] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tor-developer-isis-agora-lovecruft-...
[2] https://github.com/isislovecruft/patternsinthevoid/blob/mast...