I love my Amazon Workspace
aws.amazon.com
aws.amazon.com
Guess what? No Linux workspaces client.
So now to gain network access to a particular resource (a web address), I run the Windows workspaces client under Wine under Linux, which gives me access to a properly virtualized Windows workspace, which gives me access to a web address that is hosted on Linux.
It would be a comic tragedy except that it was so damn easy to make it work, and it works very well.
https://aws.amazon.com/workspaces/faqs/#Clients_User_Experie...
"Q: Can I use any other client (e.g., an RDP client) with Amazon WorkSpaces?
No. The only supported clients for WorkSpaces are the free clients provided by AWS."
If you use public IP addresses, just use that.. or leapfrog rdp through an ssh tunnel or VPN on a linux instance on the same VPC.
Something like this, to tunnel through a linux instance:
#!/bin/sh
sshuttle -D -r ubuntu@linuxinstance-in-vpc 172.16.X.0/24
xfreerdp +clipboard /rfx /smart-sizing:800 /d:CORP /u:demo /v:172.16.X.X*disclaimer these are my personal opinions, not my employer's
I would not be surprised if at some point soon their underlying tech became all first-party and we saw some significant improvement. There are plenty of resources throughout AWS that with some work could be composed into a better stack than the 3P pieces and protocols they use currently.
I don't think I've disclosed anything here that isn't already public knowledge, past my own wild speculation based on zero knowledge of internal workings since my departure. If anyone has any questions that I can answer without endangering myself to NDA issues, I'd be glad to answer about Workspaces.
I think it's a great product for those who benefit from it; I ended up leaving the team because while the technological challenges were interesting, I couldn't put myself in any potential users' shoes, and therefore really couldn't drum up much organic passion of my own.
client had JAWS, and the JAWS installer read itself to me while it was installing - I was rather impressed. Had to reboot, and it never came up after that - assuming it was related, but never figured it out.
The NVDA screen reader did work, as well as the windows voice assistant thing itself. both would generate audio in the workspace, and I was hearing it over my el capitan local setup.
Don't have time now, but hopefully it will be resolved at some point. NVDA was 'good enough' for the testing I was doing, and it was pretty slick to know the audio was streaming and working without any extra configuration. Probably old hat for some folks, but I'd never experienced that before. :)
Although it is getting so close.
Dropbox and drive sort of get you to a half-way point solution.
The first time was in a startup company. We hired a brilliant and unconventional sys admin who was somewhat reminiscent of the Gilfoyle character in "Silicon Valley". After being hired, he took a few weeks to analyze how the user groups worked. Then he disappeared into his work room for a few weeks, often working late into the night. When he finally reappeared, he had set us up so that our desktops were running apps from the Windows servers. (At the time, we used Windows 3.51 on the server with Novell ?Netware?.) I ran everything from Powerbuilder to an Oracle standalone instance to Word (or Wordperfect) from the server. When I needed additional tools, he was very cool about installing them.
The second time was at a training session at Sun Microsystems' Burlington, MA campus. My first day they handed me a key card. The card allowed me access to the building and rooms I was authorized for. I also needed it for access to workstations. I could go up to any workstation in the lobby and authorized rooms, insert it into a card reader, and instantly have my desktop appear in the state I left it in during my last session. It was a fully graphical desktop. Absolutely eye-opening experience working there for a few days. It spoiled me. I've been looking for that experience again, but haven't found it.
The control issue in particular will come back, it's human nature. Centralised environments are locked down to a level that someone eventually finds intolerable, so they start using unsupervised local hardware. It's the natural anarchy of the human spirit... or a reaction to the stupidity of people in power :)
https://outrunchange.com/2011/11/05/the-computing-pendulum-h...
However ... Workspaces looks like it needs an Enterprise AWS subscription ($15k/month?) so what alternatives are there for someone like me, where someone takes care of providing a Virtual Desktop, making sure it's running, backed up, connectable from anywhere (obviously with me responsible for ensuring off-site backup of any code/deliverables as I am at the moment) or is it best just to run up my own VPS with Win2k12 or similar and use that?
EDIT Ignore that, I was getting a weird redirect where trying to subscribe to WorkSpaces was taking me to the Support Subscription page, and just would not let me subscribe to WorkSpaces, but it appears to have sorted itself out now
I tried Workspaces for a month and it was decent. There are a few things it does better than RDP (especially on OS X). I did, however, switch to running Windows Server 2012 R2 on Azure instead, though that was because it was effectively free thanks to BizSpark.
The Azure machine is a bit beefier than Workspaces, so that probably factors into it.
The $15k seems to be for enterprise-level support, which wouldn't be needed for trying out the service (you'd probably want a high level of support if downtime in the service literally prevents your entire office from doing work, of course).
You could also just run everything on a VM locally and back up snapshots of the VM.
- WorkSpaces provide users with the Windows 7 Experience, provided by Windows Server 2008 R2.
Suits only a windows user - lets say you need a ubuntu machine; the EC2 m3.large similar to the "Performance" workspace bundle. The difference between AWS Workspace and AWS EC2 is huge ($48), while AWS Workspace will cost you $60, EC2 Machine with same configuration will cost you $108.
But the advantage with the EC2 machine - is you should be able to shutdown the machine when not in use, so a 50 Hour/Week will cost you only $39, that is $21 less than the AWS Workspace. So any AWS workspace single user who can use Linux Machine does not benefit from AWS Workspace.
Network problems mean you are screwed. Even short of full on connectivity loss, if you're suffering congestion or packet loss for whatever reason, a thin client can quickly become unusable. Right now I work remotely a lot, from accessing remote git repositories to doing work on c9.io (which I love.) But if I do suffer network problems, I can work locally. It's not a full on loss of productivity.
Yes network ubiquity, reliability and speed has never been better than it is today. But it is not 100%. Especially if you live in a rural area like I do.
Datacenter problems mean you're screwed. Datacenter suffer outages too. Even AWS. Again, with a traditional client you can cope with it. With a thin client you are totally hosed.
As with network issues, there are lots of datacenter problems that aren't full on outages. Hardware and otherwise.
Even Thin Clients suffer obsolescence. One of the tried and true dreams of thin clients is that they don't go obsolete. Anyone who has been on this rodeo before knows that's just not true. Network connectivity gets better, display connectivity gets better, power usage improves, etc. And with today's desktop and laptop speeds improving at the snail pace they do, a thin client really isn't offering any bonus here. If you buy a good laptop or desktop today it's going to last you years and years. (The MacBook I'm typing on now is 4 years old and showing no signs of age.)
It is slower. Despite this raving endorsement (totally unbiased I'm sure.) Thin clients that have to reach out across the network for every action are always going to be slower than a machine that doesn't. The network is always adding latency. Whether that bothers you or not largely depends on your own tolerances and what you are doing.
There's a reason thin clients always make a comeback and people are excited for a while and then realize "Oh wait I want a traditional machine again please." This cycle has happened so many times.
- inability to modify workspace t-shirt size
- workspace features using AWS services but mostly hidden
- lack of ability to re-brand the client (i did rewrap the installer with custom artwork but breaks on upgrades).
- Linux client... still waiting. (but can run under wine)
- not easy to use 2fa support
- not easy to set default printer.. they are non-static
- reboots are slow
- no ability to declare exit IP location... UK people don't want to appear in Ireland (bad for google.com and credit card payments).. have to spin up a standalone proxy using a different provider (thanks digital ocean).
- BYOL is great.. but inbuilt support for office365 would be better.
- No Amazon Elastic File System yet in Ireland.. so have to run a separate fileserver for network drive.
- Not been able to get vnc as a service working.. and can't use the windows UAC without it.
- No ability to use custom templates on user provisioning emails.
- Can't use human interaction device, such as dictate pedals for secretaries.
- .. and some more.. these are the top of my head. inability to modify workspace t-shirt size
you're correct his usage is uncommon
But I much prefer being self-reliant and not at the whim of a company for things like my computing environment. This is why I run free/open source Unix variants and Linux and rely on applications whose config I can copy and reuse across machines. Add NixOS on top and you have yourself a one command setup on a new machine, if you desire so. If I don't own the environment myself and understand it, I cannot fix problems when they come up and they will, unfortunately.
a few key differences:
- we can stream directly to a web browser without any plugins
- you can fire up a new machine in just a few minutes
- all of our machines have GPUs that make the experience feel great (we work with architects, engineers, and others that need a fluid desktop experience)
- we are cheaper (starting at $15/month) and our pricing is predictable
[disclaimer: I'm one of the founders]
What would you say differs you from Amazon Workspaces? I see your graphics include W10 screens but the pricing says W7 only. Are you planning to offer Linux machines too? How do you deal with global latency (Amazon has data centers all over the place after all)?
Having access to a GPU is a great bonus too. Some of the coding we do involves deep learning and being able to provide GPU access to the developers rather than making them switch to a staging server to test things would be a big improvement.
I look forward to when you have capacity for new users!
However... I frequently work with very, very, very limited and intermittent bandwidth (i.e. off of my mobile phone via railline), so unless Paperless can work offline, your statement/bullet, "Untethered Agility" seem particularly deceptive!
As far as "untethered agility" goes, it was intended to speak to being free to access your computer from any device! Sorry for the confusion :)
The irony of the "phone on a train limit" is that I have a phenomenal fiber line into my house. So I know how awesome, "high quality, fast internet" can be!
I was not confused about intent behind "untethered agility". My point was, I can use my laptop completely and genuinely untethered where ever I want for as long as my battery lasts. In other words, by default the only necessary tether is for power; and even then, I can go for almost an entire workday before I need that tether. Paperweight, as well as the other VDI options, actually require a near constant network tether for operation.
edit: typo fix
youkhilawala@gmail
"Jokes on them I was only pretending!"
Do people actually do this in a corporate setting?
I'll assume that this is just fluff for the sake of being able to post an advertisement under the guise of a blog post.
This was not fluff, it was my actual story.
Also, this is a corporate blog and I am part of the marketing department.
I do stand by what I'm saying there, though. One of my first bosses treated email as sacrosanct, and that rubbed off on me. His workflow was centred around his email queue, and email was the official ledger. If we talked about an idea, the first thing I did afterwards was put it into writing and email it. He had a newborn and was busy as hell, but he always got his job done.
With conversations that touch several separate groups, and with people who are responsible for a lot of different things, email becomes the common denominator. All it takes is one "URGENT!!!!" subject line to throw someone off-kilter. If that turns out to be a joke, you've interrupted them for nothing. And for very busy people, that can add up and be the difference between catching their bus home to see wife and child. It probably seems a bit melodramatic to liken it to directly taking away time spent with family, but I think it's a reasonable common courtesy to leave all jokes outside of the most formal form of written communication.
Not a big deal for a rare joke or an email that stays within a couple people, and that's what this sounds like. But the principle is something that I appreciate.
But the real limitation is the tiny C: partition. It's fixed at 60 GB, nearly half of which consumed by Windows and its gradual updates, which generally leaves you with insufficient space to install Visual Studio with the Xamarin tools.
The limitation has been noted in the AWS Developer forums, but unfortunately the 60 GB limitation seems hard-wired into the platform for now[1]. It's painful enough that I searched around for alternatives, but I couldn't find any direct competitors! I'd be 100% happy with this if I didn't have to run up against this 60 GB limit all the time. Just a heads-up for any engineers considering this for a Windows development environment.
[1] https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=220618
I'd somewhat narrowed the behaviour to any 'messaging' system - slack, skype, messages and some others - if I switched to slack or responded to an osx 'messages' notice, my keystrokes would also be sent to the Workspace, and generally cause havoc. I'd leave an IDE open, switch to slack to talk to the client, come back, and all the code was replaced with our conversation.
There seemed to be reports of some similar behaviour with a windows client last year, and it was supposed to be 'fixed', but I never saw any reports of similar OSX behaviour.
However, we constantly ran in to problems with this model of centralizing computing to a Terminal Server.
If the office doesn't have 100% stable and fast internet, your users will complain. Users are accustomed to lightening fast response from clicking/typing. Also, if the internet does go out, the entire office is offline and productivity halts until resolved.
We then investigated redundant internet links... But, there's a point where the monthly recurring cost no longer justifies this model.
As cool as this tech is, I don't think it will ever take off as the risk of lost productivity, and user frustration, is too high.
Sincerely,
NSA
If someone who didn't downvote this wants to speculate, please let me know.
The downvoting is sometimes spot on, but sometimes it seems a little arbitrary.
IMHO, rboyd was just pointing out the potential privacy issues in a humorous way.
1) It doesn't add anything to the conversation. Yes the NSA watches everything in some way, saying so is redundant.
2) Presumably the connection is encrypted, so the NSA just sees a long lived connection between your and an Amazon data center.
3) Actively pulling data off of a privately owned server inside the US is a bit (but only a bit) of a stretch for what we know about what the NSA does.
Jump to today: Microsoft Terminal Server is pretty much what people expect when talking thin clients/remote desktop and it's just no nowhere near as good as the Solaris solutions back in the early 2000s. I really miss those "old" Unix solutions, it just worked.
As a quite satisfied user of Amazon's StoryWriter program online I can really agree the ease of access and stability of the resource provides value. I've moved from CelTx at this point, and will probably even import to Amazon from that.
A friend is experimenting with Amazon's VideoDirect system as well, so I hope to hear about that experience. He did mention the need for Closed Captioning took some effort to find a suitable online tool (there are some good free ones) and the large file uploads for HD video isn't the most fun, but so far, so good.
For some reason, Amazon has targeted some of the creative sector in ways that Google and Facebook I don't think quite understand how to set up. Sure, both have some dominant platforms and tools (YouTube, "Artist Pages") but these new-ish developments by Amazon seem to be sticking the landing pretty often.
Gotta say though, I like seeing this admission:
>I do still run PowerPoint locally, since you can never know what kind of connectivity will be available at a conference or a corporate presentation.
Nice. Every little defense against Murphy's Law in presentation/performance is a wise move in my experience.
Outside of college I've never been in a building with that kind of bandwidth. At a tech company office, sure, but they don't need to outsource this kind of thing. Your average small to medium business in my hometown has 3Mbps at best.
When you're siting an office, it's definitely something to look at.
Even setting up a mac from scratch for me only takes an hour, and I run an array of different web-apps.
An hour lost at worst once a year isn't worth much to me.
I initially used (and preferred) Koding, but their shift away from solo accounts made me switch. I find it very strange that they have such a good core product that they could simply focus their efforts there and instead so much of their effort seems aimed at building an integrated slack / hipchat / .. competitor. They could integrate with them and have much a better selling point.. I digress..
It's oddly unburdening to not have any projects on your laptop but at the same time have the ability to access them whenever from any machine. I firmly believe it's the future.
In the end I just built a PC with a GTX970 at home instead which I use with Splashtop remotely now. I also setup a Belkin Wemo switch if I need to reboot it remotely.
Minecraft also benefits quite a bit from a decent video card, something that's going to be absent from most remote desktop servers (though I think that's changing).
The homepage[1] makes it seem very enterprise heavy.
I ask about OS X support as the requirement for OS X to run Xcode kills a lot of iOS development workshops as the cost is to high / device availability is low.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer.
The standard, and original, is: https://macminicolo.net
I'm sure there are others.