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Comment by rm_-rf_slash | Hacker News Reader

Generally I think it's a bad idea to mix tipping and customer ratings.

If you buy a $4.50 coffee with a $5 bill and don't put the fifty cents in the tip jar, the worst that happens is that the barista looks at you uncomfortably for a second or two. Then you get on with your day. If they rate you along with other baristas (or coffee shops) you'll have a reputation before you set foot through the door.

Growing up in America, I didn't understand how absurd our tipping culture is until I visited Europe. There, wait staff don't bother you every five minutes to "ask how you're doing," you call them over when you need them, and if at the end of the meal you enjoyed your service, you can leave a few euros as an extra, not a semblance of a living wage because the employer refuses to pay it.

Still, if it's really that important to you to tip your Uber driver, use cash.

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My experience in Europe (edit: Spain and France in particular, England to a lesser extent) was that customer service was not very good. There was a general bad attitude toward customers, treating them more like a nuisance than the lifeblood of the business. It really made me appreciate the way we do things on this side of the pond.

Could you extrapolate on your experiences? From what I saw (in Germany, Poland, and Italy), it is that people aren't paid to give a shit about the customer outside of the context of their service. No "how is everybody doing today?" No "have a nice day." You are there to be served and that's it.

Then again, these kinds of attitudes can change dramatically across national boundaries; the perspective I have often heard about France is that "the customer is always wrong."

Europe is very regional in many things, this is one of them. Southern Germany would be a very different (more friendly) experience than Northern Germany (in particular Berlin). [Waiting for fellow Germans to kick my butt for that ^^]

I've had similarly very nice experiences in France at the German border (south west that is).

When I visit Europe, my main complaint in restaurants is that I can never seem to get the wait staff's attention. I have been dining at a restaurant by myself, had all my food and drinks cleared and after waiting 5 minutes for someone to come by I had to get up and go ask for my check. It wasn't busy at the time. I guess the culture is different and I need to flag someone down? That always feels rude to me.

The idea is that you are there to be served, not babied. So yes, you are expected to flag them down. It is a signal that says you are willing to temporarily suspend your unassailable privacy. It is up to you to decide when to order and when you are done with your meal (if it's not too busy).

If you want to read a book quietly at your table, nobody will make you leave. If you want to chat with your friends after the meal because you like sitting down where you are, nobody will bug you to buy a dessert (and conveniently up the gratuity).

I can see how Americans may perceive it as rude, but to me it's an affirmation of personal space, both to the waiter that does not feel compelled to ask how things are going (always when I have a mouth full of food), and to the customer that can enjoy dining in peace.

Yeah, i recall that when i was in Amsterdam visiting some coffee shops most of the employees were pretty dismissive, I can see why though because of the crowd of people that it brings in... But when I found one that I liked, I started chopping it up with the worker there found out that he was from Santa Cruz, CA was a stellar experience. EVERYTHING else about that trip was meh.

Just a heads up: you're trying to judge continental European cultural practices by Anglo-Saxon cultural norms, and that's pretty much always going to lead to nothing but misunderstandings. There are many things (like a waiter not coming to your table unless called) that are considered polite in e.g. Germany that would be considered rude in America, and vice-versa. (Source: I've lived in both of those countries.) It's part of the joy of travel to discover which parts of your culture aren't as universal as you assumed.

I think I generalized too much by saying "Europe". I really meant France and Spain. England was all over the place, good service in some spots, French service in others. I haven't had the pleasure of traveling to Germany yet.

This conversation makes it sound like I walked around being bitter about customer service or other things that I think are better here. That would be a terrible way to travel! Everywhere I went in Europe really was lovely and I intend to go back.

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