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Comment by tptacek | Hacker News Reader

Refusing to tolerate unwelcome, overt, and repeated workplace sexual advances isn't a demand for perfection; it's a demand for a minimal standard of professional conduct. It's right there on the list along with "don't steal, don't try to finagle kickbacks from suppliers, don't physically threaten employees" and so on.

There are better places for bizdev and sales people to learn professionalism than in depositions.

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Where did you get repeated from? The whole point was that it is a single incident, try fixing it rather than jumping straight to firing. If it becomes repeated, then do the firing.

The harassment of the magnitude described here is not up there with supplier kickbacks and physical violence, anymore than it is up there with embezzlement!

Says you. Actually: the kickbacks are less likely to seriously harm your company.

Money accidentally miscounted at the till, and explicitly stealing money from the till might cause the business an equal loss, but both are not equally as bad.

You have a pretty strong opinion in this thread considering the lack of information we have.

In this particular reply, all the 4 things you mentioned are NOT happening in the story. (At least by what we know.)

Unwelcome: We don't know if it was unwelcome. She even agreed to move to another communication medium (one which wasn't officially work related.)

Overt: It was on their own time, on a completely distinct communication medium. I don't see how more COVERT it could be.

Repeated: Again, from what we know, this was on a single weekend. He called her a milf, asked if he could tell her a secret and she refused. That's it. If he's not asking again and again, it's not repeated.

Workplace sexual advances: That's not in the workplace, nor on the company's time.

There's not much we can conclude without knowing more.

She reported it to the founder, presented evidence, and made it clear that the conduct was unwelcome. I'm done at "milf".

The 4 things you mentioned are still false.

She made it clear to the FOUNDER that the conduct was unwelcome. Did she tell it to the new employee? Did he repeatedly talk to her in the same manner after being told it was unwelcome? We don't know.

I have no problem calling a coworker an "asshole", especially on my own time while taking a beer with him. Without context, that the new employee said "milf" doesn't convey anything other than he found the lady sexually attractive. His seducing techniques might be abyssal, or she might be the kind of girl that likes a little spices.

Again, we don't have near enough information to make a judgement here.

If there wasn't anything wrong with it (in her mind) - it never would have made it to the founder.

What happens when you don't fire the guy? Say later on, for whatever reason, SHE has a bone to pick with the company. Now the FOUNDER is the guy who got a harrassment case and "didn't take it seriously". What's the founder's responsibility to protect his company? Don't see how he needs that risk.

She explicitly said that she didn't want him (the boss) to do anything about it. So (in her mind), there was nothing she couldn't handle.

In addition, the event took place outside of work. You are not responsible for the social/sexual relationship of your employees in their private life.

She explicitly brought it to the boys, which means it is impacting the work environment. You are responsible for the work environment of your employees, including for addressing known low-leveling issues before they become higher-level issues perhaps involving other employees from the ones involved in the earlier issues.

Which is why you need to consult an employment lawyer and/or your internal HR expert.

"the boys"?

Typo, should have been "boss". Didn't see it while the edit window was open.

The problem here is that in a workplace you are thinking about whether his seduction technique is abysmal or whether she "likes a little spices". THAT'S THE PROBLEM. By definition, things have gotten dreadfully unprofessional -- especially from your end.

"Well, I just figured I'd grope you because you might like it, and it is after 5 pm..."

Of course things were unprofessional, it happened on the weekend on Snapchat. What did you expect?

"Subject: possible sexual intercourse --- Good morning Miss, We met earlier today at Acme corp. I wanted to bring to your attention my desire to meet you in the goal to have intercourse. Please answer before 5pm. You can reach me on my cellphone.

Regards, Mr. X"

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the boss has no responsibility. He might want to intervene if the relationship is influencing their work performance, but that's all.

And that's a clear moment when the behavior needs to stop, with any future misbehavior grounds for termination

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