Comment by rick888 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by rick888 | Hacker News Reader

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"Your knowledge will be really relevant if you're looking to work on slightly older, more established Web sites like Facebook or Yahoo!"

Many newer sites are using PHP as well. PHP is used on established sites, but that just means that it's a proven concept. I also see many more jobs for php developers than Ruby (I have seen a few startups using ruby).

"You probably won't learn very good programming practices on your own - PHP has been pretty notorious for this, but maybe this has changed with PHP5, I haven't been keeping up."

I suppose this is true. But I think you can pickup good programming practices in any language.

Another reason to learn php is because it uses a C-style syntax, which will make it much easier to transition to other languages like c/c++/javascript/c#/Java.

Ruby uses a syntax all its own that you can pretty much only use in Ruby.

I also don't feel people should be learning a programming language through frameworks. It's like learning how to add and subtract using a calculator.

What beginners need to learn is programming concepts that they can use in any language.

You've definitely got some valid points. I think I may be biased toward Ruby and Python because I like programming in them so much, in addition to the fact that I feel that my knowledge of them directly contributed to the quality and quantity of job offers I received when I was on the market.

My enjoyment of programming in Ruby and Python may have something to do with them both being scripting languages, and having easily-accessible REPLs (for the uninitiated: Read-Eval-Print-Loops, like irb, a program I mention and show example output from in my post). In addition, scripting languages just... feel easier. If you've got Python installed on your computer, go ahead and pop up a terminal if you'd like to follow along:

  [jrheard@jrheard:~]$ python
  >>> import webbrowser
  >>> webbrowser.open_new('http://google.com')
  True

If you weren't following along: Firefox just opened a new tab with Google in it! Isn't that awesome? How many lines would that be in C?

  >>> import urllib
  >>> goog = urllib.urlopen('http://google.com')
  >>> page_source = goog.read()
  >>> len(page_source)
  6917
  >>> page_source[:27]
  '<!doctype html><html><head>'

The real power of Python and Ruby is that I can do awesome stuff without even thinking about it. At all. At least half the time I have a problem, the most I have to do is one Google search to find the built-in library I need.

The point I'm trying to make is that, syntax aside, I feel like Python and Ruby just get out of my way most of the time, so I can focus on solving problems and learning programming concepts I can learn in any language.

Jeff Atwood sums up a lot of my sentiments in his post "A Scripter At Heart", which you can read at http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/01/a-scripter-at-heart... .

Why did I get modded down? I had some valid points..

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