Comment by bkjelden | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bkjelden | Hacker News Reader

I'm one of those in the 1/3rd, currently in the process of moving to the Denver/Boulder area.

I knew on paper the housing would be cheaper, but what's stood out to me is how much less crowded it is:

You can go to stores and find parking, and not wait 15 minutes at the cashier.

You can go to restaurants and actually get a table.

You can make unprotected left turns.

Things are busy during rush hour, but outside of that it's really not bad, and overall it doesn't perpetually feel like the infrastructure is about to collapse under the weight of being so far over-capacity.

There are some things I will miss, but I keep reminding myself that I can fly back to SF cheaply (or anywhere in the US from DEN, really) and hit all of my favorite spots. I am a little afraid I won't be able to find the same quality fruits and vegetables.

When I moved out to the bay area, I thought it would be great to have so many job opportunities and career flexibility. But now as I'm leaving I feel like that wasn't all it's built up to be. Having some options if your employment situation goes south is important, but I don't really need to change jobs every 18 months, or have 5 cold calls from recruiters in my inbox every week. I'd truly rather find a company where I am a good fit and just stay put for a few years.

I also think that is in some ways healthier too: having a bit higher switching cost forces you to learn how to work out some disagreements with your employer and boss, instead of just leaving at the drop of a hat.

Boulder has a NIMBY problem nearly as bad as San Francisco's:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11583455

https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/06/18/boulder-colorado-vs-b...

Not sure about Denver, I never looked into it much - it's an order of magnitude too big for me.

Nimby or not it's quite a nice place. One of the fittest places in the nation, 300 plus sunny days a year. Hiking within a ten minute walk of downtown. I hated it till I moved here. Now I see the allure.

No doubt that it's a great place! The 300 days of sunshine is completely fictitious though.

http://www.westword.com/news/colorados-300-days-of-sunshine-...

Someone invented the same number here too: http://www.hackbend.com/2015/06/17/so-where-did-300-days-of-...

You're in for a treat: the Denver metro area is an _amazing_ place to live! You're right to fear the produce, because it isn't California; particularly a this time of year, it gets a bit bland. There's a few farmer's markets and Sprouts probably has the best produce of any of the big stores. You'll probably miss the ocean, too; I do.

More than anything, I suspect you'll really love the culture out here if you're starting to slow down and don't want to jump jobs all the time. It's a lot more laid back--this is a city that manages to be mostly wholesome without being boring. It is SLEEPY after 9-10pm, especially during the week, but the outdoorsiness and access to the mountains more than makes up for it.

If you want any tips or to meet new folks, give me a shout when you're a bit more moved in! My contact info's in my profile.

Are you sure about these things? I feel like this sentiment reflects the Denver/Boulder area 2-3 years ago, but the recent influx of so many people with the exact same thought process as you has significantly dampened the lower population density appeal. For example, I was in Denver in November and there were lines out the door for pretty much every trendy restaurant and dessert place downtown, and traffic was decidedly not pleasant.

Yes.

It may be worse than it was a few years ago, but it still feels like a night and day different compared to the bay area.

Meh, I was raised in the Bay and Denver is no different anymore. Trying to get a table on Larimer Square or 16th is no different than SoMa now, 2+hour wait times if you can get that. The stores are just as crowded to me, but that may be my preference for shopping with the after church crowd (btw, Sunday drivers are so bad). On the left turns, I did live in LA for a bit, so yes, the drivers here are not as aggressive in taking turns, but that doesn't mean the Tech Center or 36 is not a parking lot most days. I don't know when it was when you came here, but the roads can get really bad outside of Denver proper, because: winter. 36 just got resurfaced (the rail-line debacle aside) so give it 2 more winters. Generally we have 2 seasons here: winter and road paving. If you think that going out of DIA is a nice time, the other post on the frontpage here about wait times in the hours specifically mentions the mess that is DIA. Oh, and DIA is about as close to the city as OAK is to the Outer Richmond.

My sour grapes aside, on you expectation to no-longer job-hop: Good luck. I too would love that, but it is becoming more clear that is not going to happen. Lockheed and Ball have huge divisions on the frontrange. Which they are all closing right now. After they closed out of the mid-atlantic (Valley Forge excepted) too. There are a lot of people here that are very smart and very experienced and still have mortgages and the network of folks here. Nothing is good right now.

I do agree that Colorado is healthier though. Not many fat people to look at here. The skiing helps. Also, there is a sizable big-ish dog culture here, retrievers are somewhat small.

Huh? Active Denver resident for the past 6 years and i have never waited more than 30 minutes at a restaurant here. I work on the mentioned intersection and dine daily for lunch, with no wait regardless of my choice.

I struggle to even fathom how a 2 hour wait is possible here. Are you walking into places on Valentine's Day without reservations?

Right, same - can walk into any restaurant on 16th on a weeknight and grab a table in minutes.

Maybe Capital Grille, but even then, places are rarely full.

Try getting a seat at The Buckhorn for tonight. Good luck

As someone who lives in a not-crowded this makes me smile :) I can't imagine being so used to such a lifestyle that it starts to feel normal.

What does "you can make unprotected left turns" mean?

I'm from the UK so I guess this is the US equivalent of turning right at a set of traffic lights... but what significance does "unprotected" have?

I think it means without the green turn arrow that indicates oncoming traffic has a red light. I've never heard this term before, though.

Where I'm from, that "green turn arrow" is called a "protected left". While I can't say I've ever heard unprotected left, the term makes sense as a logical extension of the lexicon. (And as a Bay Area resident… I chuckled at the remark about being able to make unprotected lefts.)

I will occasionally abuse the term with the term "protected right", to mean waiting at a red light where the cross traffic moving leftwards has a protected left. (because the cross traffic's left is protected, the only conflict with a right-turn-on-red is someone in the cross traffic U-turning.)

Unprotected means there is no traffic light.

Typically it will look like this...

  =             (end)
  ===========     ^  =====================
         <<       |                 <<
  -   -   -   -   ^   -   -   -   -   -  -
     <<           |                     <<
  ============    |  =====================
   (start)-->->---^  =====================
       >>                 >>          >>
  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
    >>             >>    >>         >>
  ========================================

Nice ASCII work! :)

You're right, it's the equivalent of a right handed turn in the UK.

Consider an intersection between two perpendicular streets that is controlled by traffic signals.

A protected turn is one in which the turn through the intersection and across the oncoming lane of traffic happens when the oncoming traffic (that is going straight) is stopped.

An unprotected turn is one in which the turn through the intersection and across the oncoming lane of traffic happens when the oncoming traffic does not stop.

In the unprotected turn's case, traffic going straight has the right of way, so cars wishing to turn must wait for a break in oncoming traffic, or for the signal to change. In either case, one car goes straight into the intersection and then stops and waits with its blinker on for a safe opportunity to finish its turn. If it is still there when the light changes, it completes the turn as oncoming traffic comes to a halt and before the sideways traffic begins to move.

Unprotected turns are usually done when both streets are not very busy or when one street is much busier than the other street. In that case the less busy street will have unprotected turns, because it means that there is one less signal during which the busier street is at a complete standstill (ie one signal for both traffic turning onto the busy road and traffic going straight across the busy road instead of one signal for traffic turning onto the busy road and another signal for traffic going straight across the busy road).

Unprotected turns can also work in on very busy streets (think traffic jams), because the streets are so filled that only one car would have space to complete a turn without remaining partially inside the intersection anyway. This allows the lights to cycle faster, since there are fewer signals per cycle.

The Los Angeles area is (semi-)famous for its many intersections with unprotected left-hand turns.

I'm from LA and didn't realize the unprotected left turn was anything unusual...

I only realized after visiting other areas, and having people warn me about them when driving in LA.

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