Comment by tomlin | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tomlin | Hacker News Reader

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jQuery and PNGs are actually not HTML5. I understand they aren't the same. jQuery is often cited as a "Flash killer" of sorts, just covering the bases.

See the ADC for a pretty nice selection of examples which do actually rival Flash websites, often without even using JavaScript.

Right. Except that they don't always.

I'm not saying that Flash should be what we use for creating innovative content. Standards are slow. Video tag? We're just starting to see this implemented? After how many years has video been a demand on the web?

Flash will always do what the browser can't handle native. New demands for VOIP, Web Conferencing, h/w accelerated 3D will keep Flash alive as well an IDE (with mind crushing bugs, mind you) that brings everything together.

And if it doesn't live as a file format, that would be alright, too. There is a different experience with creating content within the Flash IDE. If Flash eventually outputted in native standards, that would be a great thing.

If that was your point, you could have just said "Microsoft doesn't support HTML5, end of story."

I wasn't trying to argue that HTML5 has the same adoption as Flash, simply that HTML5 is technically capable of creating those "state-of-the-art" websites cited in the first post.

FYI, HTML5 also addresses hardware accelerated 3D in the WebGL module. ;)

How I love the "The Flash-hater side-step".

If you read, I wasn't talking about adoption rates (although that is also an issue worth noting).

You might have noticed that I mentioned that Flash brought about new innovations to the web. Most notably, how video is handled.

Try to look forward and see beyond HTML5, just as you seem to have no problem doing with HTML5 adoption rates.

To be honest, I don't know what you're saying.

All I wanted to say was that those three sites could be technically created using HTML5.

You then seemed to say that HTML5 doesn't actually let you create the effects exhibited in those websites. I corrected you and referred you to the modules.

Sorry for any misunderstandings. If we are clear on the above, and you would like to bring up a new point, I'd be happy to engage in a separate debate.

You then seemed to say that HTML5 doesn't actually let you create the effects exhibited in those websites. I corrected you and referred you to the modules.

The side-step again. The examples that you gave (a vague reference to ADC) did not support your argument. You might remember: "Show me http://mycanvas.landsend.com or http://www.myspace.com/fanvideo in HTML5." It was apparent to me that we had moved away from the Blizzard sites.

The very simplistic Blizzard sites (which I agree could be done in HTML5 to some extent) are not what I would consider heavy or complex.

I asked: "I wanna see this level of complexity without a hindrance on development time, performance or scope."

You replied with the same double talk I expect in a Flash vs. HTML5 thread: "I'd recommend checking out the CSS animation / transitions modules at the W3C to get familiarized. " You mean the fully implemented CSS transitions?

If you can't give examples, then just say that. Don't come back with a vague blanket statement.

Both of those websites, like the Blizzard sites could be completely done in HTML5. Is there a specific element that you believe could not?

I already explained why I cannot give you an example of a AAA HTML5 website (Internet Explorer doesn't support it).

If you'd like to discuss the technical aspects of HTML5, feel free to email me at jeff@wolfire.com - I am going to stop checking this thread.

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