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Comment by estefan | Hacker News Reader

> Finn Brennan, who drove London Underground trains for 23 years and now works for union Aslef, says drivers deserve their £49,673 annual pay because they do a "difficult and skilled job".

> He says they start work as early as 04:45 and finish as late as 01:30, working eight-hour shifts in a "small metal box underground" - conditions he says would be considered "cruel and unusual punishment" in other circumstances.

And yet whenever LU try to automate them they go on strike. Guess it can't be that bad after all. I wonder if he can say "hypocrite"...

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Eh, it's not inconsistent to have a very bad job, and that such a bad job is better than no job - the same way that one is not a hypocrite for not quitting from a bad job. People generally need money to have shelter, food, healthcare, education, etc. for themselves and their family. Do you think these merit sacrifice?

That would be something they should discuss. Instead, by striking and getting what is a well above-average salary, it could be argued they are perpetuating the suffering of future workers to have to put up with those conditions, on account of having created a very attractive 'pull' in the form of a good salary.

There could perhaps be some way of bringing in automation, moving existing employees into different roles for the remainder of their careers and therefore satisfying both aims.

Instead, from the outside, the tube unions seem to go on strike every other month. I don't see my water, gas, electricity or internet connections being switched off because workers at those companies are striking. Tube workers seem more than happy to inflict financial damage and inconvenience on the other 8 million people who live in London and who depend on them. Apparently they don't care that their actions are likely to be having a much more damaging impact on those Londoners on average salaries (as well as the large numbers on below average salaries).

I know someone on the breadline who works all hours and makes an absolute pittance. One day of not being able to go to work for someone in such a situation can literally risk their job, rent and ability to feed themselves.

I find the actions of the - by comparison wealthy - Tube unions generally disgraceful.

By Brennan's justification, all professional drivers should be paid double the national median - after all, they all do 8-hour shifts in a metal box.

The real challenge is finding someone who thinks that their industry should be paid less in general - every industry thinks it's undervalued.

His claim is that the conditions, on their own, would be considered bad; that the pay, on its own, would be considered good (at least, good enough to require justification). The drivers, by deciding to take the job, consider the goodness of the pay vs the badness of the conditions to balance at a level which is at least as good as they could find elsewhere (otherwise, they'd quit and go elsewhere).

Hence, it's not hypocritical to say that bad conditions justify a high pay; whilst also considering the overall conditions/pay balance to be good, and hence worth striking over.

I don't think it's hypocritical to say a job is difficult and also to say that you want to keep that job. Automation may or may not be a good idea, but I think it's important to be compassionate about those who we lose their livelihood as a result. We as a society don't have a compelling idea for how to help those people yet.

Employment == life in our society. They strike when you try to take it away.

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