A NetHack adventure | Hacker News Reader

A NetHack adventure

garote.bdmonkeys.net

49 pointsmapleoin18 comments

As ascension posts go, this is pretty mundane; a fairly normal first ascension. Don't get me wrong--it's an enjoyable read--but it misses out on what makes Nethack a truly unique gaming experience. Nethack is fundamentally a hacker game. It's about exploiting the rules, exploiting the programming in order to solve unreasonably difficult problems in creative ways.

Just as an example, he mentions black pudding farming simply as a tactic he's copied from others. But the true spirit of Nethack was when another player and I invented black pudding farming: putting together the tactics and equipment to make it viable in order to solve a specific problem. At a high level of play, one is constantly doing that sort of thing on the spot. Ascension posts by good players commonly introduce completely new tactics.

Funny thing about Nethack... a newbie looks at it and says "what is this, a computer hacking game?" An intermediate player says "oh, I see, it's just an RPG." An advanced player says "oh, wait, it is a hacking game!"

Well laa dee daa, aren't you cool. Speaking as the author of that essay, I can tell you, I did my fair share of hacking. I'll go up against you in a hacker dick-measuring contest any day. Back in 1992 I was rolling my own builds of Nethack on a university server, OVER DIALUP, to play it my own way. And before Nethack I was hex-editing my copy of Beneath Apple Manor. So nyeah.

"I can tell you, I did my fair share of hacking."

This is a fair response. I didn't feel your essay brought out that aspect of the game very well, but I have no reason to doubt it happened. IMO, the use and abuse of the game's rules are the most interesting bit of Nethack, and I wanted to highlight that.

"I'll go up against you in a hacker dick-measuring contest any day."

This is ridiculous and in no way appropriate. I meant nothing personal by my comment.

Got any links to better ascension posts?

For a post that describes the "hacking" ethos of the game that I wanted to bring out, try my wife's atheist, petless, genoless, wishless wizard ( http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/m...? ). Putting together all those conducts meant she had to be creative in identifying curses, acquiring holy water, coming up with a viable end-game weapon, and fighting certain dangerous enemies. The sequence of confusing herself to read remove curse and make holy and unholy waters so she could bless the polymorph book so she could polypile for fireball so she could beat the quest boss is the sort of "using every corner of the rules to your benefit" thing that I love about nethack.

(Also, let me repeat for emphasis: the original post was an enjoyable read. I mean no disrespect to its author.)

So in twenty years of playing Nethack, I have apparently "missed the point" of the game, by not choosing to play with self-imposed restrictions?

Actually, come to think of it, that statement doesn't even apply. My self-imposed restriction was to take no notes, not even after identifying rare items.

Personally, I think my tactic for identifying magic lamps counts as "hacking" according to your earlier definition.

I think you're missing the point now. Again, no disrespect to you or your Nethack abilities; ascending a character is serious evidence of skills.

What I wanted to point out is something you didn't emphasize: using and abusing the rules is what makes Nethack a unique gaming experience. Self-imposed restrictions aren't the only way to go, but they do force you to abuse the rules more heavily than without.

Here are some classics that demonstrate what I'm talking about: - foodless atheist polyless: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/m...? - pacifist, with Pestilence as his pet: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/m...?

Skip to Part 1 if you already know what NetHack is about. I found the narrative very entertaining to read.

Dwarf Fortress is one of my all time favourite twists on the Roguelike genre. Something Awful had a very amusing succession game that's worth a read too; http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Boatmurdered

If you have the right kind of mind to get into Dwarf Fortress, it is one of the most interesting games I've ever played. You start to really care about these ASCII characters, especially when one devastated by his wife being killed by raiding goblins goes into mourning, snaps, and murders your blacksmith to turn his skin into gloves... and they're the best gloves your town has ever produced, worthy of a name out of legend.

That read is absolutely HILARIOUS. "A few more war dogs ran out and attacked. I have to say I'm slightly terrified by them. One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage"

I think the beginning is worth a read in any case. This:

> The answer is simple: Nethack does what computers do best - what computers were invented for. It hands you a symbolic representation of something, and lets you interact with it. The symbols are utterly mundane ... but the interaction is extraordinarily complicated.

is a beautiful idea, and had never occurred to me, despite my longterm adventures in Angband. (I'm also not quite sure that it's not pushing a metaphor too far, but it's lovely anyway.)

Thank you. :) Yes, I bent the metaphor over backwards, but, Nethack does the same thing to the brain, so, it's all good...

I admit I could never quite get the allure of NetHack. I was a Moria/Angband man in college. It seemed those games were more in line with the original Rogue, than the "everything AND the kitchen sink" special case-ism that filled NetHack. I'd rather play a game I have a reasonable chance of winning is a short period of time, than have to spend decades trying for my first ascension unless I cheat by reading the spoilers (that is, the source).

Thanks for introducing me to alternatives; I am of the same predisposition but had not heard of Moria/Angband.

You can watch other players in realtime here: telnet://nethack.alt.org . More resources: http://alt.org/nethack/

That's where I played the game mentioned in the writeup, in fact. I wonder if the replay is still buried in the server somewhere...

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