I fairly recently started kendō and I find it helps with building character (especially regarding dealing with pressure in my case). I'm curious about what aspects of which martial arts that others have found particularly beneficial to life as a programmer/software developer.
For example, one of the first things we learned is defending yourself from various holds and chokes. The first move, after securing your throat or loosening their grip is generally to hit them in the balls. This is one example of something most martial arts won't teach you because that's generally "against the rules", however, in a self defense scenario, there are no rules (there are however laws that you may break so keep that in mind).
You really want to avoid going to the ground if at all possible. It just makes you more vulnerable if anyone else decides to jump in and you never know what you're rolling around on. Besides, what are you going to do, put someone in a submission until help arrives? A really effective way to break a hold is to grab their pinky and twist it in a direction it doesn't want to go. If they don't let go just move on to new fingers. Also, feel free to bite them. Hard. You can also pull hair, gouge eyes, fishhook, etc. It's great to know how to defend yourself on the ground, but you want to be on the ground as little as possible as it can be a dangerous place because your opponent is probably not playing under the same rules you are.
If you want more of a philosophy then it's probably not right for you. This is pretty much just about winning fights when it matters the most.
I remember I was particularly impressed by one krav maga instructor who had the students spin in circles and then have another student blindside them before they knew what was happening. he also later had us get attacked from behind while sitting in a chair. of course we all looked like idiots and it wasn't very pleasant. several students complained. they just wanted to look like ninjas.
Typically, you're avoiding without getting involved. Occasionally, you're facing someone down or pushing someone away as quickly as possible and then running.
Breaking bones? Is that something you expect to do easily?
Also, if you manage to get one mega-pain-inflicting blow in mugging type situation, you might give the guy and his friends much more impetus to chase and injure you.
-- Before learning martial arts was mugged a couple of times. Despite the fact that they assaulted me, they were aiming for money. If I'd injured one guy before they got me on the ground and snitched my wallet, I might have been facing considerably more injuries.
Sure, there's lots of attitude in martial arts but I think the "this is the REAL WORLD and we fight DIRTY" folks have as much of this attitude as the wanna-be ninjas.
That being said, if you do end up having to defend yourself we were taught to disable them then back away quickly. Ideally, don't turn your back to them and run. The only thing I'd really be aiming to break is their will to get back up and come at me.
in a mugging type situation you hand over your wallet. in an imminent death situation yes you do aim for eyes, breaking bones etc. and yes, it is easy to break bones with certain holds, so much so that accidentally breaking them is a genuine concern in class. properly applied joint locks are pretty nasty.
basing your arguments on counterfactuals seems kind of silly. things always could have been worse. the point is to minimize your risk of grievous bodily injury or death.
In terms of relations to programming: Krav Maga has a heavy focus on edge cases, and a "good enough" philosophy. Jiu-Jitsu focuses on perfecting a smaller number of core cases.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM
"First you're going to want to get wrist control. Then, you pull out your gun."
Aikido gets a lot of bad press but it's worth remembering that comes from Aki-Jujitsu, which was created to allow armed samurai to gain control of unarmed opponents.
It seem pretty obvious that if you've got a gun, you should put yourself in a position where you're wrestling with your opponent - keep them at the minimum at arm's length. I've heard that why Akido uses straight-arm throws.
Walking the city armed for real is pretty literally looking for trouble anyway.
Actually, if you've got a gun you want to stay about 20 feet away from your assailant. They've done tests on reaction time, and someone inside of 20 feet can easily close and attack with a knife by the time you draw your gun. Conversely, if you have balls of steel and want to defend yourself against an armed assailant, start within 20 feet and have a knife. Corollary: be capable of hitting a target at greater than 20 feet range. (Not difficult but requires practice.)
There's something to be said for concealed weapons as a self defense technique--it's among the easiest to learn and the most effective. A month of firearms training can defeat someone with years of training in traditional weapons (which is kind of the reason militaries switched to firearms in the first place).
Awareness, keeping your distance, and not getting into dangerous situations in the first place are most of what you need. If you're focused on winning a fight at all you're not focused on effective self defense. There are a lot of good reasons to get into martial arts, but being able to win street fights isn't one of them.
The outcome of a gun/knife confrontation at short range is not at all certain. Most wounds from a knife or handgun are not instantly incapacitating, and are often survivable. I would tend to bet on the person with a gun, but both are likely to be injured.
Every art I've seen teaches getting out of holds first because it is something a novice can do pretty easily with some understanding of technique.
I've also been hit in the balls during sparing matches a number of times. It's not the decisive hit many imagine. In fact, a strong solar plexis shot was much more effective in my personal experience.
A lot of "real world" martial arts teach about "disabling" shots that their practitioners never get to seriously try because they are, at least intended to be, truly crippling.
Yet that means that in the "real world", when assaulted, you are trying to do something you've never previously done in the same fashion.
For that reason, I think that "competition" based martial arts certainly can be at least as good for "real world" defense. The tactics used in MMA matches would work good in the real world - with the proviso to avoid fights and avoid the ground as much as possible.
If anyone wants to debate these issues in gruesome detail, look at http://bullshido.net . There's plenty of attitude there but it's a group of folks who've worked pretty hard sorting out bs from effective martial arts.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." --Mike Tyson
Of course, any serious martial art is going to teach stance, balance, "flow", and state of mind as well as particular techniques. The applies to all the arts I've had minimal exposure to: BJJ, Muy Thai, Tai Chi, Aikido. I don't know if this applies to Krav Maga or not - I can only know what the KM people talk about. I'm skeptical of any "too deadly except for da streets" rhetoric from anyone.
As for that video - all of that and not a single Shark OR Jet.
While it's easy for some to dismiss "mystical" aspects, look at the real world applications. If you suffer from "pressure" that could be a moderate form of anxiety. A great combat to the parasympathetic response? Breathing.
Watch what happens when you get punched in the gut. Your immediate, initially uncontrollable desire is to blindly fight like hell or turn and run. Keeping a calm head takes practice to overcome the rush of hormones. Breathing slows the heart and tempers the response. It's the same reason elite athletes, especially runners, know the power of proper breathing.
I tend to think many mystical aspects had some physiological root that then got adulterated over time. Breathing as the route to relaxation is first on my list.
I do dands (Hindu pushups) and bethaks (Hindu squats) almost every day.
Want to build character? Do 500 bethaks. Your quads will be screaming, begging you to stop at 200, 300, even 400. But you keep going. Because you know that as soon as you stop, you gave up too easily. But once you finish, you can do anything. Eerily similar to starting a software business.
Except walk. Kidding aside, I agree these are great exercises to get the blood going. I need to get back into practice!
Grappling isn't contact?
That's going to be true of any discipline one starts training in. For example, I think boxing is a great way to learn stand-up self-defense, but a beginner is still going to be susceptible to someone who wants to clinch or go to the ground. Everyone has to start somewhere.
Also, if you're a beginner in BJJ, you should learn very quickly that those locks aren't even easy when live rolling.
BJJ works well between two people. There, fixed that for you. Please don't confuse UFC matches with applied BJJ, just because Gracie won the first few.
I knew a cop in Philly who said it's saved his life countless times, and asserted it was more useful than Judo and Tang Soo Do. YMMV
Aikido is frustrating because it might require 10 years to become good enough for it to be marginally useful in a fight. However, how often do you really get into fights? If you're an aikidoist, you've basically accepted that you're learning about a beautiful art form. If you want the most effective way to hurt someone, try Krav Maga.
If you are the sort of person who is attracted to complex, difficult ideas that make you re-evaluate everything, aikido may be for you.
Aikidoists also tend to be professionals. It is sometimes called a gentleman's martial art. (No offense to ladies.) You often encounter doctors and lawyers and artists so on. On the other hand, in any reasonable dojo, none of that matters.
As he grew older, post-WWII, his philosophy and style became much softer and more spiritual than the styles he studied in his younger days. This was due, in part, to his age (changing perspective and physical decline) and the influence of the Omoto-kyo. In these later days, the purpose of training with weapons were twofold: help students learn body dynamics and learn to defend oneself against an armed attacker. The purpose wasn't to be armed and gut your enemies, the purpose was to understand the mindset of an armed aggressor, know their movements, and meet their movements without being gutted yourself.
I've heard (second-hand) a story about a high-level practitioner who got to spar with O-Sensei and at times he felt like he might not survive.
Probably best to not characterize it as a martial art, though. You'll learn timing, joint locks and throws, sword, staff, and knife techniques, how to fall safely... but most importantly, how to clearly lead and completely follow, depending on circumstances. I've heard it phrased as "the study of harmony"--not just in physical confrontations, but in arguments, office power struggles, and hard life decisions. It's not necessarily a good way to beat someone up: maybe more of a way to resolve a conflict without so much fighting.
Beautiful, but pragmatic.
Very logic, geometric.
It's a lot like C. Not so many basic "constructs" (no "batteries included"), but you can combine the basics to do powerful stuff.
Martial arts are not some magical thing you do; this isn't anime, people. They're just highly refined methods of bringing the hurt to someone.
Kendo was very good exercise; the time we did 1,200 suburi for the new year (100 per month) was quite the workout. I regret dropping it due to schedule problems. However much I enjoyed it, though, I don't really think it conferred any special advantages to me as an engineer compared to any other form of exercise.
If you like attacking, Aikido is not for you though. The movements are strictly defensive.
If you are using the Agile methodology, Wing Chun would be good. It emphasizes 1) adapting to change - This is especially true in the second form "Chum Kil" which transition from one position to another 2) least wastage - punch is a straight line to the target 3) cooperation to achieve a single target - a punch in Wing Chun is the utilization of the powers of your leg, hips, torso, shoulder, elbow transferred to the fist 4) getting immediate feedback - the chi sao (sticking hands) exercise trains you to be sensitive and look for places to enter 5) respect of difference of opinions - a tan sao can be used as to defend or attack depending on the person
If your SDLC is a waterfall method, try Choy Li Futt. Things I learned from this are 1) Commitment to a set of combination early - I have combos in Choy Li Futt which I carry through all the way, regardless of what the opponent does. The decision of what to do is made after assessing the situation (aka requirements gathering) and before the first strike
2) Using a different approach to a problem - My favorite strikes from this style is the spinning elbow and using the forearm as a striking weapon
The primary difference to me is that Choy Li Futt is a brute force solution to a problem and Wing Chun depends more on an algorithm to resolve the problem
Good luck!
I find martial arts discussions funny. More often than not it's a bunch of people arguing over which one is the "best" in a "real-world fight", which usually degrades into arguments over what "real-world fights" are like, because none of them has ever actually been in one. But it's pretty silly: I know I'd have fun in any martial art right now. If I wanted to know how to fight someone for real, I'd study some form of military combat.
There are a number of things which I find particularly beneficial to my work (I am not programmer as such, but a founder of an internet services startup), some fairly obvious:
- It is great to be forced to use another part of the brain regularly, my body may be tired but my head is less tired after each training pass, it is like an energy injection
- I am physically much fitter now, 15 months after I started, this may be obvious, but it makes a big difference to how much work I can do and how well I feel
- my wife tells me I don't stall or give up so easily anymore when I have more work to do, particularly stuff at home
- I am forced to leave work on training days (I work from home) and not stay and, ineffectively, trying to get more done. I feel like I am more effective, despite the hours that go to training and commuting back and forth to the dojo
- I have no back problems or issues with circulation in my legs anymore, I tend to spend a lot of time sitting working, this is great
My club and the particular style I practise doesn't put much emphasis on competition (it is actually discouraged) which means that there is a really helpful, non-macho, atmosphere at the dojo. Everybody is very helpful and the training really becomes about self improvement rather than trying to be better than the others. It helps that we have some really excellent trainers as well. The head of the club is well respected internationally for his work. http://www.iogkf.se/
- The school/teacher is much more important than the style. Make sure you find a teacher than is not profit oriented or arrogant. Signs of a bad teacher: has his face on the wall, has his name on the school, won't talk to you when you visit, tolerates bad attitude amongst his students.
- Martial-arts is essentially applied classical mechanics. Leverage, angle, distance, bone structure, hip turning... make sure people explain this to you instead of talking about tigers, praying mantii or age old traditions.
- practice horse stance on your own: it's the shit ! http://images.google.ca/images?q=horse+stance
- I highly recommend wing chun kung fu. You learn a few basic moves and then you can combine them like lego pieces. Check out these doods controlling the space in front of them in a RELAXED manner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFuqC6CTKV8
Also, sparring amazingly taught me to control my thoughts to achieve a certain goal. So it helps when chasing bugs to clear your mind and organize your thoughts.
Sadly, i don't practice anymore.
- Taekwondo (and karate styles) - do them if you're in it for sport factor. They are mostly based on "hard style" which means physical training, repetition, power and endurance.
- Wing Chun - Excellent kung fu MA and probably the easiest to get into (Wushu being the oposite and acrobatic). Great ROI on time invested and no need for hard training.
- Jiu Jitsu - excellent complementary MA for kung fu styles (like wing chun or wushu) since they are considered "weak" on the floor.
- Shorinji Kempo - probably the most balanced MA out of them all I've seen (I'll explain later)
- Kenjutsu - if you'd like to train with the sword :)
What you have to realize though is that you're not in it to be a ninja or whatever, you'll not fight anyone on the streets flying all over and shooting power orbs (right?), so you have to ask yourself what you'd like to train for.
As a fellow that sits around computers for long times I recommend one of these:
a) - Qigong - this is the base for everything, you will feel health benefits from it and geenrally feel more power flowing through you. If you can pick only one do this. Wing Chun is 99% accompanied with Qigong (also sometimes called Chi gung, kung) practice.
you can accompany Qigong with either Wing Chun (and Jiu Jitsu) if you want to train to be a competent defensive fighter or you can substitute Wing Chun with Tai Chi (Chuan) which is basically a battle version of Qigong so you can train only Tai Chi.
or b)
- train Shorinji Kempo and accompany it with Qigong
I also hear rather good things about Aikido and Hapkido, but I have no exposure to them.
So, do what you want and work hard at it. Don't try to think there's any mystical connection between the body and mind that a martial art can help cultivate.
I occasionally row, and instead I did boxing for a while, and with both my focus was on form and mechanics over physical conditioning (yes, there's lots of form in boxing). The "exercise" is a natural outgrown of the deliberate practice.
I didn't work up enough physical conditioning that they let me spar, but I intend to go back for it.
I recommend kickboxing for learning fundamentals of open-hand stand up fighting, Sambo or BJJ for ground fighting, and Filipino martial arts (Kali/Arnis/Eskrima) for weapons and to tie it all together. Wing Chun fits in nicely as well, and JKD is worth your time too.
I echo the sentiments of the people who say it's less about the style than the teacher. A good teacher will expose you to outside concepts. A good teacher will teach you to be practical and not flashy. I strongly recommend you focus on practicality. Always ask yourself, "how will this actually help me if I have to defend myself?" I've seen practitioners of certain styles get completely taken down because they were not taught to be practical - nothing to do with the style per se, but they didn't have good teachers. In particular, I recall a Tae Kwan Do fighter try to use spinning kicks while sparring. As soon as he started to turn his back, his opponent simply stepped forward and kicked him in the balls from behind.
Value practicality over all else.
I've started training in judo a couple of years back. I love it and I recommend it to everyone.
A lot of it depends on the vibe of the school as well. That's why I say try a couple.
If you want to ground and pound, and that's what gets you off, try a bit of some grappling styles. BJJ is ok, but depending on where you live there's probably some modern style schools you can give a go at also (usually some combo of Muay Thai and some kind of grappling).
If you want to enjoy something with a long history, and steep yourself in the culture, try some kind of Kung Fu style. I find Chinese styles exercise different parts of the brain I don't use as much for engineering and actually can be very relaxing. Most of it is highly impractical in a modern setting, but it's like studying painting or calligraphy or some such.
If you want to be tightly disciplined, Japanese styles, with their strict emphasis on form, ceremony and procedure can be highly enjoyable. I liked my brief study of Shotokan for just that reason, it allowed me to turn off the self-discipline for a bit and let something else take charge.
If you want something you can maybe take to high levels of sport and competition, Tae Kwon Do is probably the place to go. There are a bajillion TKD places around, so choose wisely. Lots of them will be belt-mills selling personal fitness more than the Olympic sport. Try to find a school with lots of Korean students.
But there are others, off the beaten path you can try and have fun with too like Escrima or Capoeira.
That's just my take. But then I think some of the mystical "crap" has a physiological basis. How many of us breathe deeply?
Modern Taekwondo is a sport and it can be great fun. If you can find a good school that isn't just a belt factory, it's well worth doing. Particularly if they teach a little Hapkido on the side.
In general, I'd have to say it really depends on the teacher...a good teacher can make any martial art useful, just as a bad one can make any completely useless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rckWVZl_GsA
Another reason I prefer Philipino martial arts to Japanese arts is that the latter tends to be rigid and emphasize gatekeeping. When I studied Kendo, the attitude was "level up before we let you spar". In contrast, I got my ass whooped one month into Eskrima. (Obviously this is also highly dependent on the teacher.)
I think BJJ will especially appeal to the nerd in you, I'm not sure why, but it does. The awesome thing about BJJ is you don't need to be very athletic to be good. Its also a very practical art and you'll get to spar everyday. In terms of self development, BJJ will crush your soul and teach you what your ego is all about. The BJJ journey is just a rewarding and frustrating as the startup journey, and you'll never stop learning new techniques and things about yourself. Good luck
For a striking example of #1 see this video where Royce Gracie (6'1" 180 lbs) defeats Legendary Sumo Grand Champion Akebono (6'8" 486 lbs) using BJJ. I can't imagine that being possible with any other style of martial arts.
In fact, I would say to try Judo and see what you like about it. If you like the throwing, then stick with Judo. If you like the grappling (which unfortunately, sport Judo mostly lacks these days...) then switch to BJJ.
I quit both because, in my personal opinion they are too focused on doing one thing fairly well while more or less ignoring other aspects of fighting. For example: I found it very annoying that Judo did not allow any punches or kicks. While Tae Kwon Do didn't allow throws or ground fighting. Basically I was looking for a different look at fighting, be it kicking, punching, locks, throws or fighting with weapons. In my view everything should be possible depending on the context. At that time I found two possible matches (in my neighborhood) for what I was looking for in a martial art: Takeda Ryu and Krav Maga. After having followed three lessons of Takeda Ryu I didn't bother of looking at Krav Maga anymore since Takeda Ryu and the people training at the dojo matched what I was looking for.
So now I have been training Takeda Ryu Kobilza Ha for 2,5 years. I'm still just a beginner and need to learn a lot, but I enjoy training very much and that's what I consider to be the most important. Whatever martial art you like to start make sure you enjoy it and feel safe in the dojo.
I have the impression that it does have an effect on me outside the dojo, although I find it hard to describe what the effect exactly is.
Currently I'm practicing five budo disciplines in Takeda Ryu Kobilza Ha:
- Aikido (throws, locks ) - Iaido (swiftly drawing the sword and cutting correctly) - Jodo (fighting with a stick) - Jukempo (kicking, punching combined with throws and locks) - Kendo (fighting with a drawn sword)
If you would like to know more about Takeda Ryu, have a look at http://istb.info/index.php/home.html or look at some footage of demonstrations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INx_CSA_I78 and our main event in Vienna Austria: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sxtTNjKSsk&;
ps: This is my own very personal and limited look at martial arts and I do not want to disrespect any Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Krav Maga or any other martial art practitioners.
It's like chess, but with your body. Combat is very close, but still not aggressive. Many technical and tactical aspects.
Develops strength, endurance, balance, timing and a feeling for moving/rolling. Makes your body slick and flexible.
And it makes you enjoy a better in sex.. seriously ;-)
If you want to become a killer machine, learn BJJ, box, wrestling and muay-thai and stop programming. If you want to get fit and exercise your mind and body, train BJJ.
There are plenty of gyms in the US with great black belts. Look for Alliance, Gracie Barra, Paragon, Brotherhood.
I haven't tried Judo, but I expect that'd be similarly interesting.
"I may not know kung fu, but I'm an expert in gun fu."
My two cents on which martial art to pick is boxing or one of the kickboxing varieties. The "east asian" martial arts schools in your American strip mall practically never emphasize that fighting is 90% physical fitness and strength, and so I regard them as a bit of a joke. Rare is the taekwondo student who'd last three rounds against a golden gloves guy.
I mean, you see fat people coming out of these karate classes. There's very rarely such a thing at a muay thai or boxing gym that actually fields fighters. When I was boxing it wasn't rare for guys to puke.
I suppose nerds want to think fighting is this cerebral thing where all these advanced skills with funny japanese names make the difference. Sorry, it's mostly being able to hit hard and keep doing it a lot for minutes.
True martial arts are supposed to give you three things: - Ability for self defense - Good health (not only physical health) - Some sense of inner peace, zen, or whatever you may want to call it.
One of the many problems of the current state of things is that most societies are culturally oriented to consume things, the more the better (no offense, but the Americans excel at this). So most people wouldn't want to learn a martial art and start very slowly, nor they would spend 6 months learning the basics. They think that the more you learn, the better.
In martial arts, you learn very little and practice alot. In the past, students would spend 6 months just doing simple movements, one of the reasons was that if you don't get the basics wrong you would not go far. I agree with you that today most people practice martial arts and don't have a clue of how to defend themselves, but in the past if a martial arts master would not know how to fight he would simply end up dead or severely hurt. Nowadays, people want to be able to fight after 2 classes and want to be black belts or masters after one or two years.
A good example of this kind if practice is Muay Thai fighers. They do not show that many techniques, yet they are devastating because they dedicate and practice alot. Another good example of fighting with strategy is BJJ. You see smaller guys with much less strength taking on bigger guys by employing smart strategy.
Either way, there's much more about martial arts than physical strength. My advice is that you first define your aims. What do you want? Be a good fighter? Be in a good shape? Dedicate some time, or just a few hours on the weekend?
Based on your objectives, you will be able to choose wisely.
(Yes, I deserve every down-mod I get for that)
…my bad. Moving on.
http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=sambeau
It sums up to -1 by the way.