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Comment by jackmaney | Hacker News Reader

> the move towards atheism

Care to explain that? Atheism may be growing--in fact, Wikipedia gives an upper bound of the US atheist population at ten percent[0]--but I've never seen anything resembling what I would call an actual cultural movement towards atheism.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#United...

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I'll bite.

The dominant non-commercial social organ for most people in their local community is their church. Atheists are by definition cut off from this.

There are exceptions of course, Unitarian churches etc, but I would posit that most atheists don't find a comparable social grouping.

So...how is this evidence for a social movement towards atheism? Honest question.

I don't think that is the question being answered by the parent. The question is (imo): why is atheism making people worse off?

> why is atheism making people worse off?

Care to put forth any evidence that this might possibly be the case?

The dominant non-commercial social organ for religious people is their church. There are plenty of Christians that don't go to church.

Growing up in a mid-sized town, there was a rule about starting your own small business: Join a church.

Once you joined a church (it didn't really matter which one), you gained a lot of social connections that turned into business connections. I don't know if there was any statistical truth to that, but it was definitely accepted in my family's social circle as a rule.

http://allendowney.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-retreat-from-rel... This blogger has been covering the phenomenon among college freshmen since 2008. Notably the most recent results segregate none, atheist, and agnostic whereas before it was just 'none', but the effects are the same regardless of which label you want to associate with / avoid.

Personally I think the actual cultural movement towards 'atheism' is simple Leftism. Most people may still believe in the belief of God and thus differ from atheists on the ontological question, but their beliefs about the world in general are vastly different from those of their (for some religions, even still living) ancestors of the same declared denomination and those beliefs are in conflict with classic doctrine.

I think so too. I think a lot of people in the US may believe in God but feel conflicted by the association with Christianity here. Certainly I would. Gay marriage is a really good example of something I support, but if I was in a church part of my tithe would probably go toward challenging it in court.

Many equate "falling religiosity" (which is happening) with Atheism. It's overbroad use of terminology, but the trend is real.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/03/5-key-findin...

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/

"None" is the fastest growing religious affiliation in the US. It's the movement without a "movement" -- no central organization required.

There are plenty of people who don't affiliate with any religion but who are not, in fact, atheists. Not that it wouldn't surprise me if atheists, as a group, were growing.

...And plenty of atheists who go to church. I know several, and occasionally darken the door of one myself.

Why would an atheist do that?

Social activity.

Actually believing in god the way American Christians understand those words has not been a major part for many religious through history. Religious are about a lot more than just a bearded father figure in the sky.

Basically what Dan said. Community.

How can you not affiliate with any god and not be an athiest?

Surely (not athiest) => theist => (believes in a god) => (has a religion)

I think it's more like: made a decision about god? if yes and believe there is one then theist else if believe there isn't one then atheist.

A lot of people I think don't care to form a belief one way or another. I'm not sure what that's called.

This is going to sound really dumb, but it's how culture works so bear with me.

I'm nonreligious, I don't care to discuss it or think about religion as a part of my life, but it's okay if others want to be religious themselves.

Why don't I want to be labeled atheist? It's looked down upon and many hardcore atheists are exclusionary.

You know how when someone insists on it being GNU/Linux, but most people don't care? That's why I'm nonreligious (but technically atheist).

I used to tell people that I was an atheist, and my wife told me I was more of a "fundamentalist atheist" because I wanted everyone else to be too.

Now I call myself a "Reformed Fundamentalist Atheist" because it captures that I don't care anymore (reformed), and it sounds enough like a real religion that people seem to accept it as one.

In the spirit of many of the good things on the internet, the Reformed Fundamentalist Atheist church (RFA) is of course an open source religion, under the MIT license :)

Lol, sounds legit.

I have known several people who did not subscribe to any particular religion - actively shunned some - but described themselves as "spiritual". Others are self-described agnostics. Being an atheist is usually considered an active choice, not a passive one.

You still can't admit to atheism in many (most?) areas of the country without pretty severe social penalty.

Hopefully this is changing, but I think it's less that is atheism growing and more that people are becoming comfortable admitting what they really think.

This also implies that atheists are more likely to commit suicide. Is there evidence to support that?

I don't know; I just listed major societal changes.

Yes, in fact.

This statement as such is still just about correlation, not causation (compare ice cream sales and drowning deaths).

But it has been studied.

* CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.*

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.161...

It makes sense to me.

A religious person in pain without hope looks at suicide as an option and thinks, "I've got it bad now, but it's only going to get worse if I do this..."

Whereas a non-religious person is thinking, "I've got it bad now, but if I do this I won't have to feel anything ever again"

Also because, suicide is forbidden in the majority of religious. God doesn't like it.

Also: religions usually set up a system of support. You have a "club" of people you hang out with all the time, and it's not unusual to ask for help from the club if your having a hard time. It's also not unusual to get the help you asked for.

Yes. Also, religions/churches often have pastors, imams, etc who act as therapists. Just having someone to talk to may help.

I honestly just assumed it was the case. I don't mind if anyone proves me wrong on this one.

For the discussion I also didn't really make a distinction between a true atheist and someone who believes in a higher power but doesn't go to Church. I should probably have used "secularism".

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