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Comment by brebla | Hacker News Reader

How does this effect the supply chain? Let me re-phrase that, are we still criminalizing the supply side? If so, we're just exporting our violence south of the USA border.

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No, they have promised legalization. However there's virtually no chance of this being a free-for-all.

What I expect the main features to be:

- Certified and regulated producers, though not numerically limited

- heavily-taxed.

- no problems growing your own.

- retail distribution depends on province. More liberal in BC, government-run in Ontario.

- separate certifications for places "serving" (ie, pot cafes). Can't take it home with you.

In other words, regulated in a way that is very close to how alcohol is currently sold in Ontario.

The key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison.

So I'm curious what effect this will have on prices. Because if pricing is anything like alcohol in Ontario then there will still be a lively black market and, if legalized, a personal-growing boom.

In Ontario alcohol can only be bought at two government run retail stores called LCBO and "The Beer Store" at much higher prices than the US and even Montreal. Unlike in some other provinces you can't walk into a grocery or corner store, you have to go to the predefined locations of the alcohol stores, which typically close at 9pm, making it harder to get alcohol. Especially if you don't drive.

I hope they don't make the same mistake with weed, because the market dynamics are different.

quality marijuana.

Quality would definitely be the main difference. Although I have friends that have made decent wine and beer themselves.

The bar is much for wine/beer higher than weed in terms of quality. And whiskey/rum/voldka is not even an option. This is largely due to gains in technology due to hydroponics and decades of seed cultivation.

That plus the extend time weed has been on the black market made the information on how to grow it widely available to average consumers. No trade secrets there really.

Speaking as someone with experience and friends who do both I can assure you it's far easier to make quality beer than it is to learn all the ins and outs of growing quality cannabis. You have it exactly backwards.

Is potency a significant portion of "quality", in which case you could just smoke twice as much? Or is the effects different if you don't do it properly?

> "The key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison."

wat? my friend, i fear you have overlooked modern homebrewing; world-class beer is being made in peoples' kitchens / basements / garages all over the place. :)

It's not impossible. Just harder.

...I'd prefer my neighbors not to stink up the whole building with their skunk stench.

Me too, to be honest, but I'd also prefer them not to go to jail for it.

Which is a separate issue. I prefer my neighbors not to stink up the whole building by [cooking smelly food|smearing shit on their walls|...], but that shouldn't make it illegal.

The housing association/board (or whatever the proper english term is) might have something to say though.

> I prefer my neighbors not to stink up the whole building by [cooking smelly food|smearing shit on their walls|...], but that shouldn't make it illegal.

This example could have been chosen better. While you're correct that your dislike of the smell isn't, in the absence of other facts, a great reason for criminalizing your neighbors smearing shit on their walls, that is in fact illegal, it is illegal for very good reasons, and you dislike the smell for the same reasons doing it is illegal. In that case, the smell is actually telling you something important.

I think we have more of a "this has to be allowed" exception for cooking food than we have a general policy of "we won't take smells into account when deciding what's allowed".

There are plenty of commercial grade filters available for just about any space. Perhaps your HOA/apartment complex could form regulations around ventilation, filtration, waste disposal, etc..

I live in a triplex from 1910. My 'ventilation' is opening the front and back balcony door. The outside air often stinks like skunk. It's actually pretty nauseating.

My apologies, I wasn't clear on that.

I meant that regulations could be enacted for those cultivating marijuana in their home, requiring proper ventilation and filtration.

Nobody wants to smell skunk all the time.

The pot-smokers tend to be neither the very regulation following kind of people, nor the kind of people who have the money for this stuff, nor people who are actually considerate enough of other people. For example, a vaporizer helps with smell, and that's a very cheap solution, but apparently rolling it so much more fun.

We'll have to see whether grow-at-home will be permitted. Here in Canada it is illegal to operate a spirits distillery in your home. I wouldn't be surprised if it is not legalized, as it opens up avenues for "criminal selling", ie: people growing at home and selling it - bypassing taxation. And, let's be honest, government revenue from taxation is the real reason legalization is even on the table.

It doesn't matter how grow-at-home laws will be written. There will always be those people who will exceed the "personal plants limit" to grow and sell to friends / the street. Especially if legally obtainable strains wind up being very limited, or if the tax is too expensive.

The whole system including strain restrictions and pricing (+ taxation) is going to be interesting to watch unfold. If officials think that your average daily consumers - not the new people who will toke once legal, but those who already consume daily - are going to tolerate an increase of any amount for the product... enjoy the black market that will continue to proliferate.

I do love the lackluster "legalization will keep weed out of kids' hands!" How exactly does that way of thinking even begin to work? ;)

> If officials think that your average daily consumers - not the new people who will toke once legal, but those who already consume daily - are going to tolerate an increase of any amount for the product... enjoy the black market that will continue to proliferate.

I'm sure most people will pay more for better quality, same way I buy wine from LCBO instead of fermenting it myself in plastic barrels (which I could totally do for 1/10 the price).

I live in Colorado, and thought it was going to be the same way for myself and for the general public.

However, over the past year or so I've found it more convenient to visit a store than my "guy". There's a store within walking distance to my home, predictable hours, regular sales and loyalty programs.

All in all, I'm happy to pay more for those things. Many feel the same.

Yes, the black market will still exist- but I think you'll see more local growers fueling the market than south of the border cartels.

> Here in Canada it is illegal to operate a spirits distillery in your home. I wouldn't be surprised if it is not legalized, as it opens up avenues for "criminal selling", ie: people growing at home and selling it - bypassing taxation.

Stills are also very dangerous which is a good enough reason to keep them out of homes. Your pot plant isn't going to explode as a high pressure fireball.

Personal wine production is also regulated. There are limits on quantities, you can't sell it, restrictions on serving it at functions, etc.

Here in British Columbia my friends who smoke prefer going to the dispensaries that have opened over their old local drug dealer. It is more convenient to go to a store with regular hours than to arrange a meeting. They also get to choose exactly which strains they are buying instead of having to take what is available. I think it is going to be very difficult to earn a decent income only selling weed.

Edit; there was a house worth 1.5 million for sale nearby, a beautiful custom home on a big lot, for sale for 400,000 because it had a grow op which is the same as a meth lab in the eyes of the law. No bank will lend on the property, the occupancy permit for the house is revoked, and the soil is considered contaminated until proven otherwise. All for a bunch of plants! Many laws and regulations will have to catch up for people to be able to legally grow at home with no repercussions.

I was of the understanding that the problem with grow-op houses is they're often riddled with mould and have unsafe electrical modifications:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/12-signs-your-home-was-...

A friend wanted to buy the ex grow op house and he couldn't find a way to ever get a mortgage on it. And he works at a bank selling mortgages. So while some houses may be trashed by grow ops they are all assumed to be trashed and there is no way to remove the black mark from the property.

Shouldn't that drop the price until someone can buy it outright? You know, supply and demand? What's keeping the price up? Is the previous owner unwilling to sell so low?

the 1.5 million dollar house was for sale for 400,000. I'd say the price did drop. The bank had taken the house back from the owner because he was so far underwater on it and it was the bank selling it at 400,000.

very true... im from BC too.

i use to pickup on the street but got annoyed with having to arrange a meetup with a dealer/supplier, the dispensary is much more convenient. dont have to wait on anyone, the businesses are open at set times with a large variety.

definately paying more for the convenience and consistency. i use to pay 160-200$ CAD an ounce on the street (5$-7$/gram).

at the dispensary i rarely pickup below $10/gram strains. more recently i have been getting $12-13/gram strains, but thats where i draw the limit. there are $15+/gram strains popping up at dispensaries that i dont think are worth it.

if you are a heavy consumer... it will hit you hard in the pocket book making the transition. i was spending on average $1000+ a month (#1 customer at 4000+ member dispensary) till i made some life decisions.

i partake, but maybe <$100/month i spend now (i prefer it more than alcohol).

as per the supply chain, most are illegal drug suppliers legitimatizing their business into legal/license distributors (using illegal funds to build multi-million dollar govt approved factories for growing and selling to licensed shops and USA).

as per the in-home growing or GrowOp houses... cant believe some people still make a mess with wiring, smell, mold etc.. this was common 10+ years ago... but nowadays its hard to have problems like this.

LED lights + smell proof rooms + good ventillation + air filters to mask smell, its very hard to get caught... and you dont have to do any damage (ran high pressure aeroponics setup that vented out of top of house, was in a enclosed smellproof 8x10 closet space). you can run a very good "clean" setup for a few hundred dollars.

anyways, anything is good in moderation... overdoing it can lead to risks. from the amount i use to smoke compared to now, i feel i have less anxiety when not high in stressfull situations and able to cope better (giving me less reasons to smoke up)

Based on the following quote:

> “We will introduce legislation in spring 2017 that ensures we keep marijuana out of the hands of children and profits out of the hands of criminals,”

It sounds like they plan on legitimizing the whole thing.

Legalizing sale and taxation through govt supported venues, much like how alcohol is sold in Canada. Still illegal to sell it as an individual without a permit from the govt, as is the case with alcohol in Canada.

Alcohol sales (and drinking age) vary across provinces - I don't think any will let you sell your homemade liquor, but Ontario is very restrictive, while Quebec (for example) is relatively relaxed.

We've truly legitimized, if not quite yet legalized, when we're applying biz jargon like "supply chain" to dope.

I'll just send My Man an application to the INSEAD MBA programme....

I don't know about the Canadian proposal, but in Colorado, Oregon and Washington, all recreational sales go through a government controlled agricultural pipeline (not Mexico).

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