FreeCAD 0.16 release notes | Hacker News Reader

FreeCAD 0.16 release notes

freecadweb.org

214 pointsbuovjaga75 comments

Freecad is an amazing tool. It is based on the open source CAD kernel OpenCascade: http://www.opencascade.com/

If you want to do CAD directly you can use OpenCascade directly or if you can use its various wrappers. The Python OCC wrapper is quite nice: http://www.pythonocc.org/

We use both Python OCC and FreeCAD to help with handling CAD data import/export in http://Clara.io

Although if you are interested in create CAD online, I recommend http://onshape.com

Something I didn't realize is that OpenCascade is now LGPL which means FreeCAD doesn't have the weird licensing restriction it once had.

I worked on a project that used the OpenCASCADE CAD kernel, and our conclusion was that it still has a ways to go. We often got errors with boolean operations and the speed of operations was generally slow.

Are there better CAD kernels available as open source? What did you go with in the end?

Nearly all commercial tools use ACIS or Parasolid or Dassault's CGM I think.

Also note that there are nascent "F-Rep" kernels that may end-up replacing / supplementing the B-Rep kernels now used in solid CAD systems.

They allow you to represent lattices and gradient structures that are essentially impossible to do with B-Rep systems.

Do you have any examples of these? Lattices and gradient structures are cool, but the problem is it's difficult to actually make these structures. 3D printers can make these structures, but they only accept data in B-Rep. Not to mention the 3D printers that can make these structures have closed controllers and run with proprietary software. The AMF file format can actually represent these things[0], but no one uses AMF.

Another problem is how does a human actually design these structures? 3D gradients are going to be hard to visualize much less work with. In addition, why should we have a human design gradients in these structures in the first place? Why not have a computer do this?

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additive_Manufacturing_File_Fo...

Gradient solids sound like they'd be useful for things like bone lattice printing. Some parts of a bone could make use of having greater density than others. eg to optimise weight, flexibility, strength, biomass holding area, in different areas.

OpenCascade is pretty much the only open source CAD kernel. There is brlcad, but that can only do CSG.

We tried parasolid, then we got forced into using ACIS. We didn't really end up with much of a complete product in the end as this was government funded research.

Wow, was this Darpa's iFab? I don't recognize you from your username but I wouldn't be surprised if we worked together in some indirect way. I had literally the same experiences and explored all those same kernels. ... We concluded that the issues with OpenCascade's Boolean operations were so baked into the code that they'd probably be better off with a total rewrite. From what we could tell digging in the code, they tesselate the BRep, do a boolean on the tesselations, and then try to match the results back to the input surfaces. This ended up with all kinds of nonmanifold surfaces, edges, and vertices, in addition to taking minutes to hours to return an answer, if it ever did return. One guy took a pretty deep dive into that code to try to figure if he could optimize it, and it was bad in so many ways, like it was doing something that required tons of triangles to be copied and reconstructed over and over. ... I'll give OpenCascade credit for one thing though, which is that an STL generated from a manifold input STEP or other file format will actually be a manifold STL (i.e. crack free etc to the level of assuming "identical" vertices will be bit for bit identical in the STL file). Try making even a trivial part into STL with Solidworks and I virtually guarantee that "identical" vertices will not be bit for bit identical. There will be cracks and you'll have to correct for them. I've never had that problem with OpenCascade. Whatever there tesselation algorithm is, it at least makes crack free results.

Interesting to read about some real world experiences with Open CASCADE 'in the wild'.

What version of Open CASCADE did you look into the Boolean operations? The experience I have is also that they are not very fast, but more in terms of minutes not hours. From what I know there are 'old' style and 'new' style Boolean operations in the recent (6.9 and 7.0 beta) versions of Open CASCADE and the experience I am talking about is the 'new' style Boolean operations.

How big were the typical shapes you used, in terms of number of vertices/edges/faces? And for these shapes what was the comparative speed in Parasolid or ACIS kernels?

FreeCAD is a 3D CAD tool with features and UI similar to Catia, SolidWorks or Solid Edge.

With CATIA being the gold standard tool that is used in aerospace, automotive, etc industries.

So FreeCAD is on a very great path.

(It also highlights how important the UI is. Everyone who every used a 3D CAD tool, can use FreeCAD in no time. On the other hand, everyone who used a polygon based 3D modeling like 3DMax or Maya will have a really hard time with the Blender and its very non-standard UI.)

I just started to dive into FreeCAD as an Inventor alternative.

(Are you talking about pre-Blender 2.5? If so, I agree.

It was a challenge going from 3ds r4 and 3ds Max 2... Had to memorize hot keys and get used to a tile based layout. But once I did, I was fast.

The ui was very different, but in a good way, IMHO. The 3D concepts are mostly the same.

But post 2.5, everything is much more discoverable. You can search for commands, pie menus, change hotkeys... and there's great learning resources now.

So I have to ask people that had a difficult time using blender, if they tried it in the last few years.)

I agree. Blender has made a lot of progress with its UI recently. The nonstandard 'right click to select' is still a bit wonky for new users. I've tried teaching blender to a few people and they -always- have trouble getting used to the right click thing. I've been using blender for so long I could never make the switch to left click, but I still think a new default option would help grow the community.

Great tool. Years ago we started teaching kids Openscad(we volunteer teaching kids to make things with 3d printers, cnc mills, laser cutters, drill machines...), but right now we teach mostly to use freecad.

Openscad only for the most advanced kids for making parametric design. Parametric design(and other tools like blending or assembly) in Freecad is getting shape fast.

Not solidworks but totally free and without artificial constraints(pay for important features). We are convinced our kids will do amazing things when they grow up.

How old are these kids? What age group? Curious to know and what kind of math do you expect them to know?

I have used FreeCAD for years, and I am looking to use it in an application I want to create. It is based upon 'Portable Generative Design for CAD Applications' [1]. I wish to create the front end for FreeCAD, so I can use the research's abstractions to create generative architecture, structures or art in FreeCAD. I have been a Blender3D user, since before it first went opensource .I contributed to the free Blender campaign in 2002. I can't remember if it was a donation < $50 USD, or I gave as a foundation member $50 USD? I've played with scripts that do the same for Blender and written a few of my own, but the Blender Python API will always be attached to Blender; you cannot run it headless, so I will try to do it with FreeCAD, since the API can be used in Python without the FreeCAD gui. I have also used FreeCAD in the past to design a kayak, when Delftship free wouldn't cut it. Great piece of free software. Congrats to all of them at FreeCAD!

  [1] http://cumincad.architexturez.net/doc/oai-cumincadworks-id-acadia11-196

>but the Blender Python API will always be attached to Blender; you cannot run it headless

You can start the blender executable with a startup script parameter and no gui and you can compile blender as a python library - shared library that you import in to your cpython instance - I've used both to create a resource build pipeline although building on Windows was a huge PITA (for eg. gigs of binary dependencies you need to clone) so I just tried building as a library on linux. I developed with library on linux and just used binary on windows to run the script.

3D noob here. How does FreeCAD compare with Blender in industrial design? Not too much compkexity, think of a fridge's general structure and shiny outer shell.

FreeCAD development have really picked up the pace lately. There is also a major overhaul of the partdesign workbench merged and underway for release 0.17. It brings user created datum points, axis and planes. It also brings advanced modeling features such as draft angles, shell and swept profile cut! Much to get excited about! :)

Can anyone elucidate to someone not familiar with CAD software what this is for? Is it parametric CAD? Is it suitable for making things like cases for hardware projects?

It's great for hardware projects. I built a number of parts for a microscope and other projects, export as STL, and 3D print them.

STL? What's that?

I think it's the standard file format export for CAD stuff, like gerbers are for hardware.

Yep, from what I gather STL : 3D printing :: gerber : PCB manufacture.

STL is very common in the 3D printing space, as many 3D printers accept it as their input file (to print with).

For other use cases, like transferring model data between programs, then STEP files (.STP) are very common instead. A STEP file contains much more data about the model than the equivalent STL file, so can be much more useful.

STEP seems like a pretty huge set of specs though (possibly a bit scary to implement from the ground up):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_10303

It's a very old (1980s) file format that is good for 3D printing but not so good for machining or molding. It saves the geometry as facets and not as "faces" so it is pretty limited in making something that is not square.

STL works just fine for machining and molding (I do the former with STL all the time). I can make non-square things - for example, printing complex octopus shapes or carving 3D relief surfaces.

Fantastic, I've installed it, thank you. I was also very very impressed by SolveSpace, which is a whole parametric CAD solution in 1-2 MB.

I've been using it in preparation for finishing a basement. It has both a 2D architectural drafting mode as well as a 3D mode (among several other specializations). I've hit the occasional bug but development is active - I looked at a bunch of tools before choosing this one. It's quite good..

How comparable is this tool to AutoCAD?

AutoCAD focuses on creating drawings while FreeCAD is about creating models.

AutoCAD is mostly used by people who already know AutoCAD or have to work with AutoCAD drawings. Most engineers have migrated to a model based approach years ago.

In architecture and civil engineering, even with powerful BIM software like Revit and Archicad, AutoCAD is still widely used, and for good reason.

Any AutoCAD > 2006 (maybe 2004) is still very good today. IMO the versions after 2008 are bloated with shoehorned 3d stuff that work better on other software and isn't the core of AutoCAD (vector drawings).

On top of that, Autodesk hasn't implemented HiDPI correctly on any of their products, making them borderline unusable on my otherwise beautiful 3840 x 2160 screen.

FreeCAD's constraint-based sketching is more of a competitor with SolidWorks and Pro/E.

When I used AutoCAD 20 years ago I know it had a constraint based add-on. Maybe all integrated in by now.

AutoCAD still has constraint functionality, but it's a watered down version compared to Inventor. As well as that - I could be wrong - but I think it's limited to two dimensions.

AutoCAD is computer aided drawing software (like MsPaint) FreeCAD is computer aided designing software. But buggy as hell ;-)

Not really although FreeCAD has a 2D drafting mode. Inventor is a better comparison.

This is mostly 3D modeling, AutoCAD is more comparable to LibreCAD for 2D stuff

AutoCAD LT perhaps is the better comparison. AutoCAD still does 3D. It's just the foundation for the MCAD BIM and Surface Modeling product verticals that dump a whole load of tools on top for those specific workflows.

I am a huge FreeCAD fan and use it quite a bit. For simple 3D printing projects I like it better than Rhino for example. Used it for the case of this oxygen system http://nortd.github.io/WaveGlide/

The thing to keep in mind when using it is that not all parts are equally usable. For a stable workflow you have to stick with what works. When you start using less polished corners FreeCAD tends to crash. It takes a bit of testing to figure this out.

Keep up the good work.

How does FreeCAD compare to SketchUP?

Does anyone know of a FOSS 2D drawing tool? I do a lot of pipe drawings (P&ID) and Visio is not ideal and AutoCAD is prohibitively expensive.

I haven't used it in a while but there is QCAD. It doesn't do everything that AutoCAD does by no means but they have been working on it for a while.

QCAD is great, but I would not consider it free: without paid package is not that usable. But this package is just 40 bucks, which is really cheap.

LibreCAD is a good QCAD near-clone that is open source.

Sketch-up us is useless toy from engineering point of view. Good for "sketchy" modeling. FreeCAD is fully parametric 3D cad system. It's great for precision design. Unfortunately buggy as hell.

It may not be open source, but DraftSight is free to use (commercial use included) and has 99% of the functionality of autoCAD for 2D stuff, but its a bit anemic if you are doing 3D.

I use it all the time at work, very easy to pick up if you are used to autoCAD (similar interface).

https://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight-cad-softwar...

I'm all for free but if you're doing actual engineering drawings have you checked out AutoCAD LT? Much cheaper than full blown AutoCAD.

For an open source tool this release notes log is huge!

Yeah, I really like this style, especially for GUI intensive apps. Some other open source projects with similar release notes:

Krita: https://krita.org/krita-2-9-the-kickstarter-release/

Blender: https://www.blender.org/features/2-77/

So excited to find out about this! I had no idea that this tool existed. For years I used and taught both Rhino and Solidworks, but I've been away from it for a while now and working exclusively on OS X.

Recently I've had the need to do some light modeling/drafting work and I'll be giving FreeCAD a try.

File formats never die. My first task at my first job in 1985 was to write a DXF import/export library in C

Couple this with Salome-Meca / Code Aster from Electricite de France here http://www.code-aster.org/V2/spip.php?article303 and you're done with CAE for free.

Unfortunately every time I installed FreeCAD, it crashed me consistently after 10 minutes of work.

Quoting from their FAQ:

If you are on a linux system, it is easy to do a debug backtrace, which provides very useful information about the crash to the developers:

in a terminal, type: gdb freecad (assuming package gdb is installed)

inside gdb, type run

after the crash, type bt to get the backtrace, that you can include in your bug report.

Guide for submitting reports: http://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tracker

Ooh thanks! I will try this on other apps that might crash in the future.

the software has to be compiled with symbols... which I don't think the binaries in the default repositories have (I could be wrong)

You are correct, the FAQ seems to have missed it: http://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Debugging

"To do this, you need to be running a "debug build" of the software. "Debug build" is a parameter that is set at compile time, so you'll either need to compile FreeCAD yourself, or obtain a pre-compiled "debug" version."

Is there a malware into the Win 64bit version file FreeCAD_0.16.6700.7b925d1-WIN-x64-installer.exe? My download with Chrome has just been stopped twice by Avast antivirus at 39MB out of 224MB.

Why not let it download fully and run the virus scanner on it? You won't get a virus just downloading a file in up-to-date Chrome.

Windows Defender detected no threats in the installer. Windows defender detects between 85-91 percent of 0-day threats, while other vendors might detect up to 100 percent of 0-days, according to the latest report from av-test.org.

Curious why Avast rather than Microsoft's Defender.

I believe there is an open bug on this since 2015:

http://freecadweb.org/tracker/view.php?id=1839

Quick update: downloaded just now and installed, no trouble. Thanks.

Looks like I've got a new CAD program for my dad! Dad downloaded and installed A9CAD and it absolutely filled up his computer with malware. He loves A9CAD, but every time he installs it I have to get a copy of MalwareBytes and disinfect the system.

Looks like FreeCAD might be just what he needs!

A9CAD appears to be a 2D CAD drawing program, whereas FreeCAD is centered around 3D parametric modeling. They're different approaches to creating things.

If you want a decent free 2D drawing package, try DraftSight, Or LibreCAD if you want open source.

Ah, I didn't realise. Thanks for the recommendations.

According to another commenter, A9CAD is a 2d CAD software. If this is really the case, you should check out QCAD. It is a nice free and open source 2d CAD program.

I'll give it a shot :-) thanks!

Has anyone done a comparison against BRL-CAD?

Is there an open source clone of Sketchup?

It's true. It's amazing. I'm using it at work for years for simple modeling and assembly. But now I can't. Why you ask? They compiled it with buggy version of C++11 library ("boost" or something) and it doesn't work at all. Thank you developers! You ruined my experience with this great software.

Has a bug been filed?

And you can still use the older version, presumably.

bug was filed, bug is fixed Hail to the Developers!

Reply on news.ycombinator.com