BMW Loses Core Development Team of Its I3 and I8 Electric Vehicle Line
wsj.com
wsj.com
Translation:
"our executive bonuses were in danger so we jumped the ship before anyone noticed"
No word on actual engineers (you know, the thing that makes R&D) moving as well.
However in many cases they are the senior engineers of the development team. In this case the defection included executives who developed the i8 plug-in hybrid sports car and the electric powertrains for the i-series.
If that was the case, it's not unlikely that the management had genuine technical legitimacy. And that they're easy to poach, with a promise that their technical achievements won't be nullified by corporate politics.
(that's pure speculation, I have no insider info from BMW)
I'm can totally acknowledge that most executives there have an engineering background (by degree) and started in an engineering position.
But for lots of them this point of their career is far behind them (>> 5 years), the field that they have actually worked on might not match their current position or that technology isn't even relevant any more. Executives that have worked as engineers in some mechanical field in the 90s and are now responsible for some cloud software or automated driving technology development (without any kind of SW knowledge) are not uncommon. It might make sense for the companies - but I also would not label these as the "development team" with the deep technical know-how.
I wonder if they continue working in Germany?
True, I haven't seen too many i models on the streets, but I haven't seen too many of competitor's electric models either.
So the market is still not quite ready for them and the manufacturers, I guess, are wary of betting it all on the electric card.
Of course there'll be people moving from company to company, just like people from Apple move to Google and vice-versa and it's normal, but the tone of this article is like "BMW is collapsing and everyone is running for their lives... to China".
Why is this even in the news ?
Press is so unreliable and sensationalist these days .. Or has it always been like this ?
Anecdotes. I see Teslas all the time. Neither of us is seeing a representative sample.
> So the market is still not quite ready for them
Tesla has 325,000 preorders.
> wary of betting it all on the electric card
They don't have much choice about how much to bet. The US government has mandated a certain percentage of their sales be low-emission vehicles by 2017.
> Why is this even in the news
It tells us that the I Series is a failed/failing product line and that Future is giving better incentives to electric-vehicle executives.
> Or has it always been like this
It has always been like this. In fact, it used to be much worse (see: yellow journalism and William Randolph Hearst).
And while there are plenty of other very nice cars around too, I don't see nearly as many exotics as you do.
I see multiple Teslas daily, both the Model S and the older roadsters. I occasionally see a BMW i8, and there's an i3 on my block. But, I've also seen electric prototypes on the roads around here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car) of which there are only a few hundred in the world, so YMMV.
Norway?
> Anecdotes. I see Teslas all the time. Neither of us is seeing a representative sample.
I have seen only 3 Teslas on the road in my lifetime, besides some promo by the Tesla store. 2 of them just last weekend on the Autobahn and they where slow as a turtle with about 120 km/h. I was going by with about 180 km/h.
> > So the market is still not quite ready for them
> Tesla has 325,000 preorders.
Funfact: Nissan has already sold and delivered much more Leaf (>1 Million) than Tesla will produce by 2020. But everybody talks about Tesla as the game changer.
> I have seen only 3 Teslas on the road in my lifetime, besides some promo by the Tesla store. 2 of them just last weekend on the Autobahn and they where slow as a turtle with about 120 km/h. I was going by with about 180 km/h.
I see a Tesla almost every day - it's parked outside of the office. There are at least two more that can be spotted on the grounds of University I went to. When I was in Norway last year, I played the game of "spot the Tesla". I counted 13+ over the course few days.
It's likely I see them more because I'm looking for them subconsciously (I think in part because I want one, just can't justify owning one as I rarely drive at home in NYC) and you just don't care. What your brain/eyes "see" is very heavily biased on a personal level.
Minor googling says that they're wrong:
http://www.hybridcars.com/2016-nissan-leaf-sales-did-not-bre...
Like he said, anecdote. I guarantee I'll see more than 3 teslas when I walk to the metro station later today when I leave work. I live in Copenhagen. See, anecdotes go both ways and prove nothing.
Teslas are also very common on the streets. If you drive through the city you're bound to meet at least 3-6 Teslas.
In Amsterdam almost all airport cabs are Teslas.
I have no idea if this airport is under such a mandate, but it wouldn't be surprising.
If I were a competitor trying to steal away an entire division, this is exactly how I'd start.
You think the four departed executives haven't already texted senior engineers saying, "let's talk in the next couple weeks"?
Generally speaking, the big considerations for engineers thinking about moving to a competitor are whether the business unit they'd be going to has a valid mission, good funding, and (perhaps most importantly) room to maneuver under leaders in whom the organization has invested and who have political clout to get stuff done.
Making a big splash by hiring four of the most accomplished guys in the electric cars game is an excellent way to signal that their new home takes this seriously. Expect engineers to follow.
Maybe they have and I'm sure there are some very attractive offers on the table there.. But I don't think that BMW treats its engineers badly either.
For a german (bavarian) engineer, working at BMW is a badge of honor, while the Chinese "Future Mobility Corp" is still a wild shot in the air.
So while some will try the greener pastures at the new startup, most will probably not be swayed.
Again, wild speculation from a non-german non-engineer, please correct me if I got it wrong.
Not really, Tencent is extremely famous, it's like Google here. You may not be aware that literally most vehicles on the road here in China are electric already (though most are bikes, there are also buses, taxis and tractors).
One one hand, the company is completely ditching its enthusiast root, at least within its main non-M lineups. The current generation 3 series is one of the worst offenders at this. In order to pursue mass market profitability, the 3 series has been watered down, its steering became heavily assisted electric systems, its suspension is tuned for comfort for a more "floaty" feel, its interior looks good in photos but are filled with cheap plastic everywhere to save cost. Its brakes no longer bite as hard because BMW doesn't want to replace too many rotors under their maintenance plane. The old king of sports sedans now drives like an overpriced and under-equipped Accord with worse reliability but faster acceleration.
On the other hand their lineups are exploding like Samsung's cellphone lines 5 years ago. Just in the U.S. market there is the 2, 3, 3GT, 3 ActiveHybrid, 4, 4GC, 5, 5GT, 5 ActiveHybrid, 6, 6GC, 7 series, then there is the X1, X3, X4, X5, X6, Z4, and then there is the M2, M3, M4, M5, M6, M5 GC, and X5 M, X6 M. Then there is the i3 and i8. They are really trying to go for market share, but are losing leadership positions in many market sectors that they used to completely dominate (ATS-V now drives better than a M3, C class now is just as sporty and way more luxurious than a 3 series).
And now they are barely dangling their feet in the EV front, while Tesla is charging ahead full speed (pun intended). M division is still doing good work technically, but even them are lost in the "spec game" and their new cars are all faster but less fun to drive than their predecessors.
My advice to BMW: Kill the i division, don't make EV a freaking hobby, do a serious EV within your main line-up and heavily push it. Don't be afraid to give it a sports tuned suspension with heavy and precise steering, add some of that old BMW magic back. Even if it doesn't become profitable in the short term it will create a halo effect for the whole company. Otherwise it's only a matter of time that the old school enthusiasts completely abandon you and the newer generations go chase after Teslas.
/rant
Make an all-electric version of the 3, 5 series and X series to go toe-to-toe with Tesla directly, instead of watered down hybrids with shit range under a non-mainstream product line.
Additionally, Audi's (under the VW umbrella not BMW group) is "Vorsprung durch Technik", which is used in most of their non-US marketing. It translates as "Progress through innovation", if they were serious about this they would have taken the EV market much more seriously by now.
> Make an all-electric version of the 3, 5 series and X series to go toe-to-toe with Tesla directly
I have my popcorn ready for Tesla's production ramp-up.
That's not too bad for a stodgy old company. Large ships turn slowly, and sometimes it takes a while for management to see the writing on the wall.
BMW's i3 and i8 are both attempts at not only testing electrification but beyond that they went after materials testing and packaging. As in, the i3 was a moon shot in materials technology and its battery pack is actually quite serviceable.
While I know everyone loves to toot the Tesla horn the real problem that hit the other car makers was GM. GM because showed what having established relationship with suppliers and a wealth of in house knowledge can do in short order. GM is bringing a 200+ mile range EV to the market THIS YEAR, not late 2017, 2018 or whenever.
That car, the Bolt, has basically obsoleted every sub 100 and even sub 120 range EV over night. GM's supposed battery costs are lower than projections from Tesla's gigafactory
The battery, motor, drive unit will be manufactured at LG, Incheon, South Korea
I wonder if the i8 has the opposite problem - it looks lovely to me, but is a fairly radical design and again you might be turning away people who want an electric option, but don't necessarily want to call blaring attention to themselves.
I think we're shortly going to reach a point where driving enthusiasts have to have two vehicles. One to drive on the roads and one to drive for fun. I've already reached that point, myself. I won't own any vehicle newer than the early 2010s unless it is fully self-driving.
Fiesta ST. 2013 (14?) and oodles of fun.
full disclosure: it's my "fun on weekends" car.
That said, I doubt I'd buy another BMW. Over-priced, poor apps, crappy in-car computer, every halfway decent option comes at a ridiculous price, maddening missing options (no heated steering wheel!), and a UI that's basically junk.
I don't know if that's reflective of the general BMW "way" - reading online it seems to be - but it's like dealing with a company from the dark ages.
BMW have proven that they can build and design electric vehicles. They now need to concentrate on why people don't want to buy into their brand. Maybe they can make it as an Apple - ultra-expensive luxury for people willing to turn a blind eye to imperfections - or maybe they need to concentrate on a superior user-experience from purchase to drive.
The tech is there and evolving - it is just the company which is stagnating.
(My review of the car, if you're interested - https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2015/09/i3-electric-car-review/ )
Edit: "How many i3 buyers are new to BMW? About 80 percent"
Source http://europe.autonews.com/article/20140606/ANE/140609922/bm...
It mostly seems to be overpriced, though perhaps tax incentives and gas costs make it more competitive in Europe. In the U.S., it's hard to imagine buying one over a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Volt (especially because the 2016 Volts are getting stellar reviews).
Then I guess they're new to the auto industry. Even Tesla moves slow. With things like cars and power plant you can't just move fast and break things.
Still a hit for BMW and a coup for Tencent.
That's 5+ years for a new model. It's say that is pretty damn slow for car manufacturers that tend to release a model upgrade per year. Especially given ever developing tech position of electric.
Maybe they are expecting the development to be done in Audi/Porshe companies and BMW will tag along. I find it hard to believe BMW management dont see (and plan for) where the market is clearly going.
Not defending BMW; they seem to have missed the boat in this iteration. Perhaps they'll be able to find their way, but they'll have to play catch-up for a while.
If the next car in the i-line is planned for 2020, I understand that these 'young people' think it's slow. And it's obvious that it isn't a priority for BMW.
For the iPhone, it was a relatively fresh niche, so the minimum quality bar was very low (and considering how much better smartphones have gotten, you could argue that early models intentionally left a lot of room to improve). EV cars need to compete not only with "normal" cars, but also with generations of tesla's, and a wide variety of hybrids, including plug-ins that can to some extent provide the same benefits. A new entry needs to be much more competitive.
Then, the ingredients to a smartphone are fairly simple, and it doesn't actually matter that much exactly what you do with them. Anything vaguely affordable with a touchscreen and internet essentially works - and without much competition that means there would have been many paths to success. By contrast, there are quite a few physical limits cars run up against that make the details a lot more relevant (perhaps not if you'd have been developing the first car, but well...)
Cars have lots of regulatory issues and there is extensive safety testing. Even if this were trivial, it's likely still time consuming and may involve many iterations.
Totally different beasts.
The automotive industry has notoriously long lead times. The second sentence does not contradict the first: they release yearly model upgrades, but each upgrade takes 5 years (more or less) to develop. In other words, 2018 models are pretty much finalized today
That's not true. There are facelifts every few years and new models take a few more years. And even new models are often based on the older model in many ways.
The problem with probably all traditional carmakers is that pivoting to electric simply does not work well at that scale and you need to simultaneously develop experience with electric cars while maintaining your gasoline cash cow. Toyota used hybrid for this, BMW tried niche cars. None went all in.
Price-sensitive "reason over status" EVs that don't suffer that status hit from lacking high speed endurance are a much tougher nut to crack than status vehicles like the existing Tesla models. In this market segment, german carmakers are not failing significantly harder than everybody else.
Most people don't drive on the autobahn most of the time. And most of it has speed limits anyway. Even when you are using a part that has none, you may not be able to drive that fast due to traffic. I don't know what kind of idea you have about this, but very few people will drive their vehicle at top speed even if it is possible. First of all, it becomes much more stressful to operate the car for an extended amount of time. Secondly, you can be held liable for accidents while driving at above the suggested speed of 130 km/h even when you are not at fault. There may be a few people who would consider this an argument but most won't consider this kind of thing.
> very few people will drive their vehicle at top speed even if it is possible
It's true, you rarely see a car in the Model S price range anywhere close to their top speed. They are just too fast for that, the lanes are starting to feel so damn narrow when you are approaching 200 km/h. A seasoned "business class" driver would rather put the car on cruise control at 180. But whenever traffic and local limitations are permitting, it is just as rare to see a really expensive car lurk along anywhere close to as slow as those 130. And depending on which part of the country you are driving in, these situations are far from rare.
Perhaps it is a big loss or not that great; eitherway I believe the company will do just fine - they've set themselves up very well for the future unlike many of the other manufacturers in terms of brand, mobility, innovating / delivering on new tech / processes etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa5_tudyAF8
As can be seen, they are not joking around. To me it looks like technology brought by aliens from the future.
Also, I think the i3 is crazy ugly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8
You can buy the report for $500k: http://leandesign.com/bmw/
I don't consider BMW sales low. Quite the contrary. Read "The Innovation dilemma" to see what is happening here. Sales of electric are low compared to normal cars but they are extremely high for electric growing at an exponential rate.
So high that right now with the Tesla batteries alone in the next two years the price of lithium alone will double or triple, because the Gigafactory alone will produce in a year more batteries that are currently manufactured in the entire world today.
What is probably going to happen is that electric batteries need for cars will advance the development of new batteries that do not depend on lithium, like grapheme, because lithium availability is limited.
Ever since I saw one in Real Life - but how I covet my neighbour's i8!
CAFE is no joke (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Econo...)
As far as laws preventing your from moving from a company to a competing one go, I really don't think we have anything like that. Same goes with taking old employees with you if you move to another company. Which is a Good Thing, if you ask me, because if people decide to walk away it's probably because they are sick of it or found something better/better paying/more interesting, and law preventing you from moving someplace better would be preposterous, IMHO.
Of course, this "lack of regulation" might have to do with the fact that the vast majority of contracts are of the collective type and not tailored to your particular company, meaning that you work under the same conditions as most of the other people doing your job.
According to my limited experience, a company drafting up its own contracts is a rare occurrence.
Does your boss have the same goals as you? Does your CEO care deeply about your personal progression and happiness?
If so, there's no need to join a union.
For most people, a union is an insurance policy against your employer turning against you. Providing legal and financial assistance when you need it most.
To summarise: if your employer has more lawyers than you do - join a union!