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Comment by rhizome | Hacker News Reader

OT, but for those of use who know kids into Minecraft, is DF a good thing for them to graduate to? KSP maybe better? Seems like there's a family of games here that have a progression of sophistication.

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I would lean toward Kerbal Space Program. It has a lot of depth and a fun style, and apparently some educational value as well [1][2].

You know, the obtuse interface and ASCII graphics of Dwarf Fortress don't bother me but they do hold me back from recommending it. I grew up on the Ultima series, MUDs and old-school roguelikes so my standards here are a bit dated. For a kid growing up in the age of Dark Souls III, a game like Dwarf Fortress might be relentlessly difficult to get into.

[1] http://www.pcgamesn.com/indie/physics-teacher-blasts-his-stu...

[2] http://www.kerbaledu.com/

The problem with DF for young Minecraft players is that Minecraft is intensely social, and DF is for the most part very solitary.

There is a serious sociopathic bent to both DF and its community. I wouldn't recommend it to your kids unless you had played it enough to know what you are getting them in to. Maybe start by reading http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91093.0

Its a fun game, but not that kid friendly IMO.

KSP and Factorio are both better options.

Having played both Dwarf Fortress and Minecraft, I think that there are a lot of different people who enjoy many different things about Minecraft. Dwarf Fortress doesn't fulfill all the same roles, so depending on your preferences, you might like it more or less. I don't really see it as progression personally, although they do share a subset of their audiences.

The appeal Dwarf Fortress has over Minecraft is its depth, detail, and propensity for interactive story telling. If you just want to futz around and build things, Minecraft is probably much better.

Just add mods. Feed The Beast has nice modpacks and I loved watching direwolf20.

Dwarf Fortress is fun, but different. It feels more like a narrative generator to me.

Edit: unsure why this is downvoted. People don't 'graduate' to games, each one appeals to people for different reasons. If you want your kids to play a more educational game, minecraft with mods is that game.

I would give KSP a shot, since it has direct lessons to learn about physics, aerodynamics, celestial mechanics, etc that many aerospace engineers don't have intuition about. The simulation is good enough that I learned a ton about celestial mechanics as a PhD student in aerospace.

[factorio](https://www.factorio.com/) might be worth a look too

Thanks, but yeah, someone else mentioned it and the playvid I checked out made it look a little more battle-oriented than what I think is relevant, like a hybrid of The Sims and StarCraft.

Kerbal Space Program is fantastic, I'll always recommend that. It might be worth checking out Gnomoria too; it's a lot easier to get started with (IMO) than Dwarf Fortress, but still provides a lot of mechanical depth.

I thought it was abandoned by dev's in a buggy alpha'ish state

I think you might be thinking of 'Spacebase DF-9' by Doublefine, which was released in a fairly primitive state and then basically never updated.

Gnomoria is already quite advanced (mechanically) and has been getting content updates for ages.

Depends if they like starting at ASCII. KSP has a much more familiar interface and would probably be the better route to go.

There are actually a surprising number of detailed graphics mods you can get for Dwarf Fortress (although not wanting to fiddle with modding the game is entirely understandable).

Very true, but even with graphics mods the difference in ease of use between DF and KSP's interfaces is vast.

The Lazy Newb Pack more or less takes care of the difficulty of doing that, though.

Would you say DF could be a graduation up from KSP, or am I just barking up the wrong tree thinking they're related more than they are (never played MC, DF or KSP)?

Barking up the wrong tree. They are different games with different goals and all 3 can be incredibly complex.

Thanks!

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