Ask HN: Best linux laptop right now?
I get to choose a new laptop for work. I'd like to switch back to Linux as I think it does 95% of what a Mac does, and it's better at some things. What are people using?
After you install John Lewis' ROM (basically a Coreboot build), it is an absolute dream, and everything worked out of the box, wifi, bt, 3d acceleration, suspend/resume, audio jack detection, you name it. Trackpad is really smooth, 1080p resolution IPS, the battery lasts 10 hours, never gets hot, fancy back-lit keyboard, has 8 philips screws in total to take it apart. Hell, it even has a TPM module so I can do those fancy ssh password-less logins (https://github.com/ThomasHabets/simple-tpm-pk11). If you really like the clit mouse, then this machine wouldn't cut it though. The speaker is kinda iffy and doesnt sound very nice, but nowhere bad.
It is also only 500USD, so that's another factor.
To some extend, that's true. Most things I do that aren't development related are done on a web browser. It's absolutely perfect for that. Starts up extremely quickly, very light, long battery, lovely.
For very occasional dev purposes, I simply used crouton, which works insanely well. I can even use sshfs and go back to ChromeOS and have the drive still mounted. Highly recommend the c720, or whatever is the more recent equivalent.
Now mainline Linux kernel support is so good to the point that you don't need to hack on it to get it to work.
How's the screen like? Do you see pixels when reading text/code? If my calculations are correct, the Dell Chromebook has 169PPI, while the MBP 13 has a 227 PPI display.
About DPI I would love to have the MBP screen, so I can do the 2x DPI mode, however, ~1.5x scaling for 1920x1080 is not bad at all. KDE scales odd DPIs really well, so I don't have a problem with it generally speaking. After you set the DPI on Control Panel/System settings, everything scales seamlessly. I have yet to find something that makes me frustrated in terms of app scaling.
Without the display... which is a major reason why people purchase a Macbook Pro.
Also the Precision has thunderbolt...absolute must if you want a reasonable docking solution under Linux.
Also consider: https://system76.com/
Their stuff has been rock solid for me.
I'm planning on Arch, but if I get sick of that or find my terminal-fu lacking, I'll probably go back to Mint.
- Keyboard drivers (phantom keys, double key registers, no registers). Keyboard was basically unusable until kernel 3.19. - Synaptic PS/2 mouse drivers. Like keyboard, mousepad was unusable until 3.19. I still can't use it with tap-to-click because palm detection is so bad. But that is ok for me since press to click is my preferred anyway. - Power management was awful (again until 3.19) - Misc. usability problems - mDP/external display connectivity issues - Suspend/resume issues
Those are just the ones I remember off the top of my head. At this point I think I have a stable machine, but with some quirks...but as a Linux user I sort of expected quirks so they aren't deal breakers for me anymore. Still, I would recommmend M3800 over the 13" DE.
Oh one more:
- Sometimes PS/2 drivers report mouse movements as touch movements (I have touchscreen)...this means using Chrome is impossible since moving the mouse "scrolls" as if you were on a touch screen.
The developer ver is sold natively with Ubuntu.
The arch wiki is absolutely great, but it doesn't have much/any info for some (newer) laptops (e.g. XPS15 9550, X1 Carbon 4th gen..)
When discussing this on the ThinkPad subreddit a Red Hat employee mentioned that their standard issue work laptops are ThinkPads with Red Hat Enterprise installed, but most engineers then switch to Fedora. As a result Fedora tends to run very well on ThinkPads (according to him and in my so far limited experience), as they have many Red Hat engineers working on that OS every day.
Still does ~20 hours with extended battery after more than a year of heavy usage. And they're some of the most robust portables available.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_(operating_system)
Be interesting to know what hardware Linus use, though given security is a low priorty for him, not sure what this would mean.
Personally, I would like to know if the gen4 ThinkPad X1 Carbon (hardware, bios, firmware, drivers, etc) have any know exploits or notable security measures.
Anyone know?
EDIT: As a result of the comment below, as of 2012, Linus says, "I love my MacBook Air!" - source:
http://www.cultofmac.com/162823/linux-creator-linus-torvalds...
I however enjoy Fedora very much and part of why I made the switch from Debian fanboy to Fedora convert was because I learned how to use SElinux and found it absolutely charming. ;)
I actually don't agree with him entirely, but I understand his philosophy. Hopefully I'm not mischaracterising him, but I believe that in essence his view on security boils down to issues:
1. Security bugs are just a bugs and should be fixed and not treated much more differently than you would any normal, high priority bug.
I believe that's why they don't highlight security flaws in the changelogs. I think it's a mistake myself, but I do understand this position and it's not necessarily wrong. Note that I've not ever seen him say that security is NOT a concern, he just doesn't seem to want to prioritise it above bugs like those that call data corruption or kernel panics.
2. He has a view on trust - you must take care to keep your "network of trust" reliable. He write that:
"What happens is that the way merging is done is the way real security is done. By a network of trust. If you have ever done any security work, and it did not involve the concept of network of trust, then it wasn't a security work, it was masturbation. I don't know what you were doing but trust me, it's the only way you can do security, and it's the only way you can do development. The way I work, I don't trust everybody. in fact I am a very cynical and untrusting person. I think most of you are completely incompetent. The whole point of being distributed is I don't have to trust you, I do not have to give you commit access. But I know that among the multitude of average people, there are some people that just stand out that I trust, because I've been working with them. I only need to trust 5, 10, 15 people. If I have a network of trust that covers those 5, 10, 15 people that are outstanding, and I know they are outstanding, I can pull from them. I do not have to spend a lot of brainpower on the question. When Andrew send me patches, he actually does not use git, it's some kind of defect, but other than that, he is a very solid person. When he asks me to pull, he does it by sending a million patches instead, I just do it. Sometimes I disagree with some of these patches, but at some point, trust means, ... never having to say you're sorry? ... I dunno ... It basically means that you have to accept other people's decisions. And the nice thing about trust is that it does network. That's where the network of trust comes in. I only need to trust a few people that much."
https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/LinusTalk200705Transcr...
Previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11492070
(I have tested the predecessor (gen3) and liked it. I'm waiting for the 16GB gen4 X1 Carbon to become available here in Germany, drop enough in price to be affordable, and for Linux to support all the C-states.)
> I have finally compiled a patched kernel myself and couldn't be happier with results. Not only battery life increased (~1 additional hour), but what's more important, performance on battery improved significantly.
(Note: I have not tried this myself yet...maybe this weekend)
Some other possibly useful links I just came across related to this patch:
- https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/4d6qj5/psa_linux_...
For a pure Linux machine the thinkpad is probably the way to go. They are cheap and powerful and most Linux distros are designed to work on them. Unfortunately it will feel like a cheap clunky pos next to any Apple computer and Lenovo may have put spyware directly in the bios where you can't do anything annoying to it........like get rid of it.
If you just wan't Unix go with a MacBook Pro. You do have to live with the price, and the fact that it is used primarily by hipsters and white girls for tasks one could accomplish on a raspberry pi (the new one at least). But the value of an OS written for the hardware is something that's hard to comprehend until you experience it.
Oh and get you one of them fancy new raspberry pi's as well. They're super dope, and they run Linux great.
This site collects info on people running Linux on their ThinkPads: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki
Edit: SuperFish wasn't in the firmware. Why do I associate Lenovo with evil firmware?
Edit2: Right, it was this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10039870
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4cojj9/it_is_pro...
Anyone have any experiences running Linux with this or the P70 model?
I would recommend just buying a cheap dell or hp with an intel wifi card and no dedicated gpu and install ubuntu on that - at least you wont feel cheated after spending $1.5K+ on some nice hardware, and your battery life will be tolerable. I have heard macs run linux fairly well too.
The battery life, storage, and matte IPS screen are excellent and the device is extremely thin and light. The overall build quality is comparable to the MacBook Air but it costs half as much. The trackpad works very well.
I bought it a few months ago for $600 from the Microsoft Store (irony acknowledged).
Edit: My one and only complaint is that it only has mini-hdmi 1.4 instead of DisplayPort or HDMI 2, so no 4k@60hz external monitors.
Someone just chose to change that particular port.
1) If you're used to a retina macbook pro, you're doomed. There's nothing with as good display and touchpad.
2) If you can handle low resoltions (1920x1080 or even 1366x768) and generally lower quality screens, get a Thinkpad. New ones are very expensive but generally solid, while older ones are cheap and work well with Linux.
3) If you want a good screen, there's only Dell XPS 13. If you live in one of the few lucky countries, you can get it with preinstalled Dell Ubuntu fork.
- Wireless drivers broken in Jessio (unless you build your own kernel)
- UI elements are EXTREMELY small (you have to set DPI before window manager starts)
Battery life is awesome. I could probably go 6-7 hours, haven't tried though as I'm mostly connected.
As for graphics drivers, it's shitty at the moment. There's no native acceleration is I haven't bothered to recompile kernels as it doesn't concern me (it's a work machine).
Someone else will be getting the same machine soon, so I'll wait for him to be my guinea pig.
But obviously people disagree else they wouldn't rave about the subpar keyboard and rather hot chassis as well ;).
This Force Touch is also making its way to their iOS devices in a variation they are calling 3D Touch. Like many Apple technologies, it's one of those things that after you use it for awhile, it's really hard to go back to anything else. I guess that's what you get for premium prices, and thankfully it's worth it!
The new keyboard on the new(ish) MacBook is kind of a short travel that I'm not fond of (from my quick tests at the store), but I definitely prefer the "chicklet" keys to the right-up-next-to-each-other keyboards I've used elsewhere. I haven't used a Thinkpad in about 6 years now, so maybe they're better now. Looks like they have the chicklets now too.
Not sure what you mean about Apple overheating. Cupertino doesn't get that hot, and they probably have AC when it does get into the 80s. But, maybe you mean Macs, and I haven't had any issue with my Macs overheating. Maybe you got a dud when you were trying one out?
There's no wrong opinion. Just an opinion.
I agree, it's a gorgeous screen.
Has a sleek MacBook like look and feel, but comes with a battle hardened customized Linux distro (PureOS) and separate physical kill switches for Wifi/Bluetooth and Webcam/Mic
Next batch will go out in a few weeks I believe.
You can check them out (and order) here: https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/
https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-f...
"Hardware Devices that Support GNU/Linux"
Sure, the ThinkPad X1 Carbon (4rd gen) looks thinner, but at the thickest point, at 16.9 mm the T460s is only 3% thicker than the X1 at 16.35 mm. Also the 1.4 kg vs 1.2 kg weight difference is not big.
T460s is easier to open, if you want to add memory or change the SSD drive, or change other components. T460s still had a traditional RJ45 port for ethernet cable. With X1 you need an usb-adapter, or always use wifi.
For both you can choose a 1920x1080 or 2560x1440 screen resolution.
My old MacBook Air 11 2012 (which Linus himself used to use) is almost perfect. It's only missing ACPI events for battery discharges (something I've only seen in x220, but I hated its fan noise).
I'd like to point out that some very cheap Chromebooks that are getting Libreboot support (not ready yet for prime time though):
https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/index.html#supported_laptops_...
factory firmware on that SSD has a bug that causes it to permanently lock up / disappear from the bus, with the result that all data on it is lost. Apple will replace the SSD when it happens, but data will be gone.
If you're getting/using the 2012 model, I'd recommend getting a replacement SSD from OWC or Transcend before installing Linux.
The wifi is Broadcom and works poorly under Linux. Not so many crashes anymore, but frequent disconnects, horrible performance and quick loss of of signal when the ether is crowded or the laptop is a few meters away from AP.
The wifi card can be replaced, but AFAIK, the Apple-provided firmware will not allow the machine to boot if the PCI ID of the wifi card does not match the original broadcom one. I don't think coreboot runs on the airbook either.
By terrible I mean actually missing keystrokes noticeably often, even around 60wpm.
Overall it's been a great machine; most everything Just Works™, and in the rare cases where something doesn't the large community of Linux-using ThinkPad owners has made it easy to find out how to fix it.
There is one absolutely glaring exception to this, though: power management. For reasons I've never been able to figure out, and despite what feels like endless tinkering with power management settings, I've never been able to get more than 2 hours and change out of a full battery charge, which is (IMO) unacceptable.
Now that it's getting on three years old I've been thinking about replacing it, and the natural thing to do would be to buy the newest X1. But I'm worried that I'm just going to end up with another machine that's constantly needing to be tethered to the wall again.
It's a 14 inches laptop, which makes it bit enough for programming and small enough to be carried around everywhere. In this respect, the fact that it only weights 1.3kg also helps a lot!
The HiDPI screen makes it quite pleasant to stare at the screen for hours at hand. Given the high resolution, I have no trouble opening up 3 80char vim panes side by side, even though at home I connect it to an external monitor.
Xrandr lists eDP1 (internal monitor), DP1, DP2, HDMI1, HDMI2 as outputs, this makes me think that a DP split is supported, even though I haven't checked yet.
The keyboard is nice like all the thinkpads but be aware that the layout is different from the standard. In particular, caps lock has been replaced by home and end keys. After some getting used to, I must say I rather enjoy this change and I use the the two keys often! The laptop also has an "adaptive keyboard": a row of keys that change its function according to the context (on win). I only got to working the F{1..12}, volume -+, mute, light -+, keyboard light toggle, and two extra programmable keys.
The battery situation is also good: One charge lasts about 5.5h, and with the rapid charge feature, you can bring the battery to 80% in just 1h. The rapid charge turned out to be very useful as I can charge the laptop between lessons at the uni for about 20' and keep going for 2h afterwards.
Connectionwise, the lack of ethernet (it does have a network card and port but you have to use a proprietary adapter) and SD is noticeable at times. The other ports, namely: HDMI, DP, 2xUSB3, mic/headphones work as expected. I have not tried a docking adapter yet.
So, to summarize the Best Features:
* 2K screen (Amazing!) * good keyboard with sensible improvements over the standard layout * fast recharge * good battery life
Possible improvements:
* RAM is soldered and max 8GB * no SD or microSD port * m2 SSDs are still expensive
The battery life and screen quality are just off the charts. If I am going to stare are a screen for hours, I want crystal clear text.
If you want a 13in, I honestly feel the Dell XPS 13 Developer edition is amazing, better than the 13in Retina Macbook Pro IMO.
You can still get them refurbished from Dell, sometimes with 40-50% discounts for $250-300. Very worthwhile for a second portable.
Absolutely no issues in Debian even with the dedicated nVidia. Even the keyboard backlight works with no issues.
Not sure if anyone commented yet but Torvalds used a Macbook but I think since moved to some Sony VAIO if I'm not mistaken.
Some issues though:
* battery only lasts around 90 minutes on full settings, and half of that if you're compiling something heavy. This is a used laptop though, so no idea how many battery cycles it had when I got it.
* switching to an external monitor is annoying. Out of the box it doesn't remember the display layout settings (mirror/extend/etc). If I switch off the on-board GPU and use the discrete one, the VGA port is unavailable. Sending sound over HDMI doesn't always work.
* wifi sometimes gets into a weird state where it can't find any networks. Resetting the driver helps though.
* the only available AC adapter weighs a couple of pounds and is huge. Haven't had any luck finding a more reasonably-sized aftermarket one.
* the speakers are too weak even on 100% volume.
According to dell.com, it seems there is no option for ECC ram on this device.
The sadness continues...
And among other things Dell installs a special custom package to prevent the super key from working at all, which was/is very odd and was a bit of a hassle to reverse because not only do you have to uninstall their super key disable package, but you have to install a tool to configure Compiz to re-enable it once the package is gone.
I'm guessing (but don't know) you get a better experience with the XPS 13"?
Not sure if it's an unusual case or not.
Top two hardware issues that ruin Linux for me: * GPU drivers support is either broken or non-existent. * Wi-Fi drivers non-existent or not included in a particular distribution out of the box (seriously?)
Almost everything works, but I'm having trouble with a couple of things:
Graphics. It has switchable intel/nvidia but I get a better performance out of the intel chip still. Battery life is about 2.5/3 hours. I haven't tested bluetooth. The fan sometimes comes up without any apparent reason. Palm detection and gestures don't work, but the trackpad is ok otherwise
The display is gorgeous, the machine is a beast and I'm very happy with it otherwise.
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/korora-penguin-gnu-li...
The fact that it works with Trisquel is a good indication that the hardware support is good.
However, it cost about 1354 USD here in Sweden and I'm not too happy with the resolution. It's enough for two vertically split python files, but it could be much better.
The T460p is due out in the next few weeks and is geared toward performance with the use of discrete graphics and Intel core i5/i7 processors from the HQ line.
The T460s is geared for mobility, and can be bought today.
And also available today, the regular T460 model is a compromise between the two.
I've thought about buying that as a replacement for an old Macbook pro.
Speccing up the triton with the HD screen and a bit more Ram is GPB500, which seems quite reasonable for a decent machine for programming and the odd bit of web surfing.
The review linked here looked quite positive, but I'd been keen to here from someone that actually has one.
Btw I tried different distros before sticking with Ubuntu 14.04: it really the most finished (at least on my t440s).
The driver for the Realtek card may have improved by now: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1239578
Another solution is to buy a suitable Intel wifi card from ebay for $10-$20, open the laptop, and switch it in.
But things have improved thanks to https://github.com/lwfinger/rtlwifi_new (I stumbled upon that while doing a quick search after posting here yesterday...). Looks like my wlan is finally stable :)
It's been a while since I've needed to do so though, but I've really only seen ChromeBooks have regular screws. Is this still common?
Battery life is poor compared to a Mac, but it's really light given the compute power.
Do you need huge amounts of ram? Do you need very powerful processor? Or are you more interested in long battery life?
In both cases, new computers were received that clearly had defective components. I bought a large desktop system to serve as my primary work-from-home computer, and the motherboard was defective out of the box. My friend has twice received defective power cables from them.
In all cases, they have argued that the burden of arranging and paying for shipping should be the customer's problem. In one case, I lived in an urban area not close to any UPS drop off locations, and trying to carry the huge desktop machine and walk to UPS was not feasible -- and System76 would not cover the cost of the taxi.
Most companies will provide you with at-home pickup for this sort of issue, for no fee if it really is a defective component. I expected that I should be able to print a shipping label from them, repackage the device, and leave it outside at a designated time and/or hand it to a UPS driver myself who had been arranged to pick it up at my apartment building. I used to own Dell laptops in 2007-2009 and they did this for me once, and also even offered to pay for a local service technician to come to my apartment and fix it on site, all for no fees.
Additionally, the customer service was unpleasant to interact with. They did not seem to treat my request or my issue reasonably, and in the end after I was frustrated and wrote them an angry email and they finally caved and offered to cover one-way shipping, I just said screw it, I'd rather not deal with the headache, and I contracted a separate service technician to help me replace the motherboard.
I strongly, strongly recommend against System76. It makes me sad too, because I love to see a Linux-focused company, I am a supporter of Ubuntu, and I am happy to pay a premium for these things. I'd love for there to be more seller options ... but I just won't ever go back to System76. Too much hassle and frustration.
That's what I like to upgrade to next.
Just buy by the specs.
It's so cool that the Thinkpad Reddit has people asking "does anyone run Windows here" !