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Comment by mysterypie | Hacker News Reader

> I think the atmosphere is quite cozy, and love taking my own stuff to work on

I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist.

The nearest equivalent was a bar: Dimly lit, filled with smoke, loud annoying music, aggressive people, and a waiter coming around every 10 minutes to ask/demand if you want another drink. If you dared bring in some papers or a book to read, you'd get dirty looks, rude comments, or worse.

Thank god for the modern coffee shop and the shift in attitude.

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>I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist.

Are you talking about the US here? I'm pretty sure they've been around in Europe and the Middle East for centuries.

Yeah, in Lisbon one of those "modern" coffee shops has celebrated its 230th anniversary.

Those hipsters.

They were hipster before hipster was hipster

Yeah, he's talking about the US only. My US suburb, quite large, never had a coffee shop until Starbucks in 2001. Sad.

It's interesting how long it took for the US to adopt them. I wonder why the coffee shop culture wasn't exported earlier. I wouldn't compare Starbucks to European style cafés though. It's sort of like the McDonald's of coffee shops. Not a good experience if you're looking for quality coffee and a pleasant atmosphere.

Yeah Sbux is terrible, there is still a dearth of good cafes across the US. Only now is NYC picking some up via Australian imports.

You're joking right?

Might be geographical? Many of Vienna's most popular cafés were established in the 1800s.

My exact thought. I also think elsewhere im europe there were cafes and bars where especially writers would work.

This article from a few years ago is quite interesting regarding the literary history of London's coffee houses:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/united...

Yes, as far as I know the very first cafés in Europe opened in the 17th century in Vienna, Paris and London and then spread to Italy and the rest of the Austro-Hungarian empire over the following two centuries.

Yep, there were revolutions in Europe that started out in coffee shops.

And yet the guy with "a PhD in coffee shops" in the original article says he thinks they contributed to political stability in 18th Century England because they give people a place to rant and feel better afterwards...

(I never was convinced that you feel better after a rant, though. Rather, you have just worked out your "angry muscles".)

There's actually even a term for this, "Kaffeehauskultur", see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viennese_coffee_house.

>Might be geographical?

Anecdotally I'm typing this in Harpenden, 30 miles north of Soho where the cafe scene has changed totally - 20 years ago there were hardly any now it's full of them. On the other hand the Soho cafe scene is not so different from that film of it in the 50s. The Stockpot shown only closed last year.

I remember those days. And I couldn't go into the bars, being in my teens in the mid-to-late 80s. The best option was the all night places like IHOP. As long as you tipped well and weren't loud, they'd let you hold down a booth with nothing but coffee for most of the night.

And then moved to a college town which already had 3-4 competing coffee shops in 1989. Felt like heaven. Doing homework on my old Powerbook. Sitting with friends, having a smoke, if by myself then reading something difficult and hoping a cute smart girl would notice.

The first Powerbook was released in 1991, and started at $4000 converted to current dollars.

Sorry if I implied the powerbook was being used in 1989. Didn't get that until my senior year. My brief reminiscence was more of a broad sweep of those years in that town.

In 1989 I was still using (at home) an Atari 800 with matching disc wheel printer. Though I spent far more time in the computer lab with its Macs until I got my early graduation present. Kinda miss the lab days. I made more friends there in the sleep-deprived craziness of the overnights than I did in the coffee shops.

I remember pubs in the late 90s: dimly lit, filled with smoke, quiet rock music, quiet people, waitress who'd drop by when you called her over. I could bring in all my books and write a term paper for an entire afternoon, and they never minded. It was glorious and, unlike the coffee shop, illegal nowadays.

>I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist. The nearest equivalent was a bar.

Nope, the nearest equivalent was a diner. Think "Happy Days" -- those things existed for a century.

Depends where you live. I grew up in scientific communities and there were always cafes. They were very much like coffee shops but the only choice was regular or decaf coffee.

The 1980s? I know a few coffee shops that are still like that.

Yea, but there were more little cafes(cafes that encouraged cousomers to stay.), books stores, magazine stands, and people just outside--actually talking to each other. The only look down was maybe a quick adjustment to the Walkman.

In high school, I worked in a little place called cafe Nuvo. No one had laptops, but they talked. They wrote in journals. They read books. Talked about philosophy, and politics. Business people did their paperwork there. It was a neat place, but run horridly by a dentist who didn't know how to run a business.

I recall even the fast foods joints encouraged kids/adults to hang out. I never felt pressured by establishment staff to order something, or leave.

Was it better than today? In a way? I definetly miss the book stores. It was easier to talk to people back then, at least least for myself.

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