Why Thieves Steal Soap
priceonomics.com
priceonomics.com
One time as I was leaving I asked the officer why Folgers crystals of all things were locked up. His reply was "[ethnic group] gangs steal essentials in bulk, and sell them to the homeless."
From that point forward it clicked in my head, retail theft is about liquidity not value.
interesting way to combat racism...
So goes the theory at least.
Not that I think it's appropriate to assume malice on the part of the police officer, nor to censor everything race-related that you find objectionable.
If, for example, you post a list of facts about crime rates among a particular ethnic group apropos of nothing, it's probably racist, regardless of whether or not the facts are true.
That said, in this case I think it's just the bad taste that one often gets in their mouth knowing that a racist might read a comment you make and have it confirm their prejudices.
As for how it's combating information: is there meaningful information lost here? He could have told you what colour his pants were, too, but it wouldn't add a whole hell of a lot to the story.
IMO, its not so much the loss of information, its the implication that racial problems should not be considered racial problems.
Very little is added to the discussion of curbing gang crime by bringing race into the picture. What are the specifically Black solutions to gang behaviour? What are the Hispanic ones?
On the other hand, the culture of racism and intolerance such discussions engender has real and measurable downsides. Cf. every discussion of police interactions by minorities.
The culture of black Americans is unique. It's different than the culture of Asians, Hispanics, Whites, ect, and initiatives will effect each culture differently. That much seems certain to me.
To say that there is a one size fits all solution to gang violence is to ignore important cultural differences.
To just look at family structure: 75% of black families are not married and 60% of mothers with multiple children have them to different fathers.
As for how we tackle gangs, I'd need to study to problem longer. But its a hunch of mine that the above family statistics play a role in their formation.
You're feelings have no bearing on the range of legal actions available to other people.
regardless of whether or not the facts are true.
What kind of state of mind are you in bro?
whether or not the facts are true.
?
What do you think the definition of 'fact' is?
How does reality being racist imply that a fact is racist? And not other things? Is everything racists under a racist reality? How do we draw these lines?
Let me be more concrete and give an example.
Blacks living in the U.S. have (in a statistical average sense) a higher sensitivity to sodium than whites, leading to higher rates of hypertension in that demographic. If you're a physician treating black patients or you're a black American yourself, this is an important fact to know. This is a racist fact, because it differentiates reality along racial fault lines.
There are plenty of examples of situations where I could get you to say that one course of action is the rational or best option, but if I keep the same logical structure and swap out some nouns and adjectives, what was once the best option is now racist, and I'm a racist if I take this course of action. I won't give any examples because they're too inflammatory, and I don't feel like getting downvoted into oblivion. I'm pretty sure you can fill in the blanks if you're so inclined.
Since realizing this, I no longer view "racist" as a derogatory. It's the way the world already is, so my choice is either to have an accurate view of reality or an impoverished one.
But really, any reader who doesn't already have racial prejudices will recognize that the operative word is "gangs", not "[ethnic group]". It's a bit of an insult to the sensibilities of HN readers, and it doesn't protect anyone from anything.
> any reader who doesn't already have racial prejudices
because I don't believe these people exist.
Seems to fit to me.
Actually once at the Safeway you're talking about. Last year I saw a man with an open duffle bag run out of there with security half heartedly following into the parking lot. They looked around for a few moments and went back in. Lots of homeless hang around there, especially by the Starbucks around the corner.
The Safeway (or Unsafeway as my wife calls it) near Japantown on Webster St is frequently a source of drama too. The last instance I saw was where a homeless woman got caught by a guard at the door with some items under her coat. She dropped to the ground screaming about being pregnant.
In The Netherlands a lot of bikes are stolen because people are too lazy to walk.
Most of the time your stolen bike can be found again next to a bus stop or train station.
Each.
As a cyclist, N+1 is real :)
~40% is stolen by professionals
~28% is stolen by junks
By the way, bike owners:
US: ~18%
NL: ~84%It is 'racial' in the sense that it is a finer distinction of races. It fits in a hierarchy like -- people --> races --> ethnic groups
For example:
Whites --> Danes, Basque, Serbs
Blacks --> Yoruba, Luo, Kalenjin
It is strange and concerning that because there is so much walking on eggshells around these matters there is such ignorance[0] on basic matters.
[0] I mean that in the least offensive way, just basically not informed, or educated on a matter.
If that weren't enough there is a large body of scientific evidence that supports the fact that race makes little biological sense and is mostly a social construct. Take the example of the Basque you picked: it turns out the Basque are much different from the rest of people in Europe due to their being (mostly linguistically, but also genetically) the only descendants of hunter-gatherer societies in Europe.
I suggest you read Genes, Peoples, and Languages on the subject: it's really fascinating.
http://www.amazon.com/Genes-Peoples-Languages-Luigi-Cavalli-...
Does it?
> there is a large body of scientific evidence that supports the fact that race makes little biological sense and is mostly a social construct
Given the topic, I'd be skeptical - a large body of evidence might still not be conclusive. However, maybe a more relevant question is why it matters - you are what you might be perceived as, so far it might affect how you are treated.
If you didn't see it as relevant information, or you didn't want to relay that information to us, then why not just say 'gangs'?
(I think that including it struck the perfect balance between flavor and a refusal to propagate racism. Without it, there's a simple report of information that was relayed. With it, I can better put myself there.)
That's silly.
What purpose is served by accusing the officer of racism in the comment? Is it some kind of weird virtue signalling, like "she's racist! but not me, I'm a good guy!"
Furthermore, if we agree that the subtext is the officer is being accused of racism, there is in fact no basis for that accusation. Noticing a facet of reality and verbalizing it, is emphatically not racism.
It might be 'racism' of the sort that everybody is desperately searching for in every nook and cranny to hang their ideologies on, but it's not actually racism.
(what I find confounding, is that from reading your comment, the officer hasn't just been accused, but in your mind seems to be fully guilty and worthy of condemnation, based on the evidence that she simply spoke what she had observed. so strange...)
It seems to me as though you're looking in every nook and cranny to find people doing this!
I wasn't there, so I don't know if it was racism. But the author's inclusion communicated to me that the police officer was racist. The author could have made that more clear by writing "[racial epithet]" rather than "[ethnic group]" but following the principle of charity makes me think the author found it relevant, and I think we agree that that shows the author thought the officer was racist.
If the officer had just said "black gangs" or "Mexican gangs" or something like that, then maybe the author read too much into it. But the author was the one that was there, and who heard everything else the officer said, and clearly thought that the racial bit was worth communicating. So why automatically dismiss that?
I thought it was something exactly along those lines, not necessarily one of those two groups, but something along those lines given that 'mexican' and 'black' are common descriptions for ethnic groups in the US.
by writing "[racial epithet]" rather than "[ethnic group]"
What do you think 'ethnic group' means?
An ethnicity is not an epithet, there's really no connection between the two at all, other than an epithet is a mean name people might call people. And all people happen to be of one ethnicity or another.
communicated to me that the police officer was racist.
Given the weight that some people give to such a charge in today's society, you're really doing no one any one favors by being so brash and cavalier in handing it out, given the paucity of evidence. Even OP should be very cautious with such a label given such a brief interaction.
I think we agree that that shows the author thought the officer was racist
No we don't, I think you may be confused about what an ethnic group is, or the meaning of the term. There is nothing racist about using the proper name for a group of people.
It seems to me as though you're looking in every nook and cranny to find people doing this!
I really should get better at self-editing, I notice how people will commonly grab onto to one little minor supporting snippet of a post while ignoring the real substance of what's been written.
This has been true for every ethnic group imaginable throughout history. In America it's been true of the Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Chinese, and so many others. So many now celebrated "model" ethnicities. The existence of [ethnic group] gangs who regularly commit certain crimes at rates much higher than others is not a sign of the uniquely fragile moral fiber of [ethnic group], it's a signifier of their continued mistreatment by society and continued ethnically biased socio-economic inequality. Only a tiny minority of any [ethnic group] are criminals, to take the actions of a minute sub-set of a very large group of people as a bad mark against the entire group is entirely unjustified, especially in light of the issues I've described above.
I can't believe that it's 2016 and I still have to explain this.
I agree with you, and presume 'dsl' does as well. I assume the use of [ethnic group] instead of the specific minority was head off misinterpretation. What caused you to interpret the comment as claiming that crime was the result of the "uniquely fragile moral fiber" of [ethnic group]?
Edit: I do think it's fair though to characterize the propensity to commit crime as a "moral failing" even if the causes are primarily economic.
Jevons' work is recommended -- it's a classic study of the subject, but one which still carries strong weight. Rather more useful than many of the misdirected rantings of more recent vintage available online.
> stability of value
Yes, soap has phenomenal storage value! Depending on its ingredients you can keep soap bars indefinitely, and they will maintain 100% of their value. If necessary, you can (re)pack it with food storage tools to ensure it stays dry, like vacuum-sealed mylar bags in plastic bins, but as I understand it, soaponified oil won't go rancid even with moderate O2 exposure. For friends looking to save for their future, I advise putting soap near the top of their list and making a full space for it among their shelves.
For my needs, I have found this soap works and feels great: http://www.kirksnatural.com/products/kirks-fragrance-free-co...
The pain of the penalty (at least in the show I watched) was less about the crime & any charges, but that the shopping mall was banning them from the mall for a year. It was a bigger deal to them that they would have to find another mall and drive further away to buy their groceries to feed their kids.
The NYM article reads an awful lot like a submarine piece for that amazing technological wonder, Tide, the expensive to produce detergent that gives anything you wash with it a quality feel.
[0] http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/12/beattyville-k...
> Thieves can sell items for around a third of their retail value, according to the report, or for roughly half their value if they sell them to second hand shops.
I think even with no name brands, they'd still have to sell at a loss to be competitive with that kind of markdown. Hard to compete when the other guy's cost is $0.
Do you have a reference as to the prices of branded vs no-name items? I don't have any specific knowledge but I suspect the brand markup is quite significant.. might be interesting to check that (I don't think there is any no-name shop around here or I'd go out and have a look at soap for instance)
Also, the other guys cost is not really $0 .. he also has to make the money to cover his costs, which could be anything from food and rent, or drugs, or paying off a loanshark or baliff, or greasing the palm of his crime boss. His costs don't go down, so if his profit is reduced then his exposure goes up as he needs to steal much more. That means more time spent on the job, and more chance of getting caught.
Corollary: for a big store, selling at a loss could still be more profitable than having stuff stolen.
Actually just giving stuff away could still be more profitable if it cut big store security costs.
Of course you'd have to ration or otherwise control the volume of sales, otherwise you'd just cannibalise official sales from the big store.
you discourage it by fixing what is wrong in the local area and that requires an effort by the support agencies of the government understanding what is wrong and wanting to fix it. it also requires those who need help knowing how to get it, seeking it out, or accepting it, which is not always the case
I have multiple people in my neighborhood in Baltimore that sell stuff like this (detergents, soaps, deodorants, axe, febreeze, shower gels, razors, carpet, toothpaste and brushes, loofas, mouthwash). Including their food stamps. Well, not stamps but now they're debit cards that ironically say Independence on them.
So around the 1st-3rd of the month people get their stamps. They get enough in stamps that they can afford to sell some, maybe $200 FSD for $100 USD. Some folks actually budget and shop at the lower priced store like aldi, or food depot. So maybe a couple months out of the year they're able to sell sometimes more than half of the stamps that month. After that cash runs out for whatever reasons, a small minority, sometimes in groups steal from the local chain stores so they have quick cash. They're mostly drug addicts doing it for a fix or two for the day not for a living. But it's a daily thing.
One guy comes around often, sometimes everyday. He's got regulars sometimes he catches them on off-days and he'll need to come back to secure the sale. But fair is fair and he holds stuff for people. Most of his customers are the little old ladies you would imagine that spend hours peering over newspapers for coupons, or comparing the sales at store A vs store B. An $800 social security check doesn't go very far after expenses.
Seems like a way of life in the ghetto where I live. My family included, has always purchased these things from the guys in the neighborhood and still do. I'm not saying it's morally right. But as long as there is a cheap alternative to the corner store you will find someone in the hood willing to deal.
Stealing itself is worse, of course.
Playstations maybe, but DVD players?
...I'll get my coat.
The author didn't do his homework. Tide detergent bottles are (were?) a fiat currency for drug transactions. Weird but true.
You can easily resell it on the street in smaller containers, and make a big profit if you DILUTE! DILUTE! OK! [1] ALL-ONE-GOD-FAITH! [2]
[1] http://www.lisabronner.com/dilutions-cheat-sheet-for-dr-bron...
[2] http://dev.null.org/psychoceramics/collection/bronner.html
Dr. Bronner's Fair Trade & Organic Castile Liquid Soap
(Peppermint, 1 Gallon) $57.59 Prime
If you like the soap, you might also enjoy the documentary: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dr_bronners_magic_soapbox/
Soap is after all, an essential.
A simple thesis doesn't invariably make for a shitty article.