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Comment by kdamken | Hacker News Reader

So many of my peers, many of whom are up to their neck in student loan debt and have mediocre paying jobs, seem hellbent on buying a house, usually due to the "rent is throwing your money away bro!" argument.

Did you know you don't need to buy a house? Like it's not legally required, even though everyone seems to think its the greatest thing you can possibly do with your money?

Some food for thought:

Why your house is a terrible investment - http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/05/29/why-your-house-is-a-terrib...

Crunching the numbers of renting vs owning - http://jlcollinsnh.com/2012/02/23/rent-v-owning-your-home-op...

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My parents generation all bought houses, watched the prices double, then went on up the housing ladder. Now they all own £500,000 - £1,000,000 houses. Sure it took them 20 years, but that's good money to be made.

So everyone you've ever gone to for advice, all the people you look up to say 'buy a house'

And there's no houses to rent round here.

Yeah I think that's the tough part - everything was very different 20 years ago, so when people's parents offer advice it's relevant to what worked well for them then, rather than what would be best for them now.

On average it's still one of the best possible investments you can make with money, especially considering making a return on any sort of savings today isn't really a thing. These articles also neglect to mention that if you had bought property in a city like SF, Boston, or NYC a decade ago you wouldn't currently be worried about being priced out of the city by increasing rents (commute distance is a huge economic burden beyond the obvious housing costs).

It's still not something that's a "sure thing" or you can do hastily. It also takes more of your time than renting, so if you're trying to optimize "free time" then it's likely a bad investment in that regard.

There's no simple answer one way or another, but if you're trying to justify your inability to buy as a "good decision" you'd still be wrong more often than right. An increased market of affordable housing to purchase is better on the whole for wealth equality than controlling rents.

"especially considering making a return on any sort of savings today isn't really a thing"

You can still get around 4% dividends or 7% capital appreciation from some stock funds. Which give or take is no better or worse than property in general once you have considered taxes / repairs / upgrades.

You are right it can be a good hedge against inflation of city costs, but that is a bit of a gamble.

If you think it's one of the best possible investments, besides the article I poseted above I'd also recommend checking out - http://affordanything.com/2015/11/24/is-renting-better-than-...

You mention cities that are booming. What about if you bought property in an area that got worse?

Well sure, that's an example of a bad investment. Renting is choosing to not invest. Zero risk, zero reward.

These calculations never seem to include future increases in rent..and the incalculable costs of dealing with shitty landlords or property managers.

Yep, those are other factors to take into consideration. There's a give and take for each option. If dealing with landlords is that much worse for you than having to pay for all repairs no matter what, then owning might be a better option.

My main issue is that people just think "renting is throwing your money away" and then take on 300k in debt, without considering all the angles.

or thin walls/nosey or noisy neighbors/environment, pest control, privacy(maintenance has a key and can just come in unannounced), upgrades like HVAC, water systems, electrical work, landscaping, etc are not under your control, limited/shared parking

To play devil's advocate - if you have shitty neighbors, it's much better to be renting than owning because it's easier to let your lease expire and find a new place to rent rather than having to consider selling your house.

I may be in the minority, but I bought three years ago, and have never regretted it. Not only did I get way more value and luxury for my money than I would have by renting, but I'm on track nearly double my investment in a few more years. My only regret is that I ever rented in the first place. My point is that, like any investment, it can be profitable if done patiently and properly.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I have since looked into renting out my house, and downsizing by renting an apartment, but I couldn't even get a two bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhood for the cost of my mortgage.

I'm not saying owning a house is a bad thing - as long as you crunched the numbers and made sure beforehand, it can be the right decision.

Helpful calculator: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calc...

Thanks, that was very helpful! Also reassuring, considering that my rent-is-better number came up lower than a studio apartment near my job would be.

Also:

“Rent vs. Buy: If You Have to Ask, You Should Probably Rent”

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/07/27/rent-vs-buy/

Mr. Money Mustache, based as always.

The supply/demand curve works in favor of home ownership, especially in land locked areas, since there's only so much area to build on. In an area like Kansas City or Des Moines, it's not as good since the city can annex the cornfields that surround it.

Yes taking on debt is risk, but so is everything else in life. Driving, charging a credit card, eating at chipotle, etc.

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