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Comment by Audiophilip | Hacker News Reader

>The UK isn't in Schengen so it's not part of this.

Romania and Bulgaria aren't in Schengen, either. This isn't a Schengen issue, this is a European Union issue.

It is a Schengen issue and the UK is completely unaffected by it.

The visa policy of the Schengen Area is set by the European Union and applies to the Schengen Area and to other EU member states without the opt-outs enjoyed by Ireland and the UK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_Schengen_Ar... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_King...

The quote you gave points out it isn't a Schengen issue, but a UK/Ireland vs. the rest, issue. The UK and Ireland has opt-outs, so you're right the UK is unaffected. But every other EU country is subject to the Schengen visa policy even if they are not part of the Schengen area. Bulgaria and Romania are explicitly called out on the first of your linked pages.

>But every other EU country is subject to the Schengen visa policy even if they are not part of the Schengen area.

And that is exactly why it is a Schengen issue. The Schengen agreement contains more than just the passport free travel area. It also contains transitional rules for the countries that are obliged to join the passport free area like Romania and Bulgaria.

I think the misunderstanding results from the fact that the Schengen agreement is now part of the EU treaties. So yes it does affect the whole of the EU apart from the countries that have an opt-out (UK and Ireland)

Romania and Bulgaria are legally obligated to enter Schengen in future so yes it is a Schengen issue.

The UK on the other hand has no intention to join and don't intend to put visas in. This issue is more a Schengen than an EU issue.

sigh Let me explain. The EU would like to have its citizens treated under the same legal conditions abroad regardless whether they are from a Schengen country or not. In fact, the Schengen Area includes multiple non-EU countries as well (Switzerland, Norway, Iceland etc), and their visa policies are not involved in this issue at all.

The UK (and Ireland) has specific opt-outs that prevents this from affecting the UK. Any other non-Schengen countries other than the UK and Ireland are affected because the Schengen visa policy applies to them regardless.

What I mean is the EU is negotiating on the behalf of all Schengen area countries (including the Swiss, Norwegians, & Icelandic) but is not negotiating on the behalf of the UK/Ireland (who are EU members).

It has to be this way because when you enter the EU it is either Schengen or the CTA (UK/Ireland).

While technically Bulgaria and Romania are not yet in Schengen, they have to enter at a future time.

The Swiss, Norway and Icelandic visa policy IS involved because they also have to fill in the silly form and pay the fee to visit the US/Canada as part of the Visa Waiver Program or eTA but a US/Canada citizen can simply enter Switzerland or Norway (Schengen) without any forms or fees.

While Bulgaria, Poland and Romania have the WVP issue this isn't the only reason for these measures. This is on the agenda too (how they are not in the WVP) with the USA despite intending on being in Schengen.

While the UK/Ireland also has the ETA these negotiations don't have anything to do with it as they will not be imposing Visas on US or Canadian citizens.

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