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Comment by rwmj | Hacker News Reader

Oddly I'm in the market for a "neighbourhood electric vehicle" - a cheap, limited, electric car that can get two people to the station and back daily (a distance of around 4 miles).

There are really no good options. The closest is probably the Renault Twizy, essentially an enclosed electric bike with 4 wheels. It's very expensive, and more worryingly there are lots and lots of them available on the second hand market, almost new, at greatly reduced prices.

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(caveat: Volt owner)

I would make the case for either a volt or if you are a motorcycle person check out the Zero line. I am electric only on my volt probably 29 days a month. 30-50 miles of battery is enough for 99% of what I do, but having the option to go much further and not be limited by having to wait for charging is a huge plus to me. On the rare times I do need to go further it usually turns into a several hundred mile trip, at which point a Tesla isn't a whole lot of help. Additionally, I have no concerns with where or how I can get maintenance done...Chevy dealers are everywhere. It is my only vehicle and I am a happy camper (literally, I have taken it camping).

The Volt is far from perfect, but my friends with Tesla S's seem to report a similar number and type of issues. Having sat in and driven their cars I would say that the fit and finish on the Tesla is marginally better but at 3x the cost...and that margin is not enough for price jump. Every person I know with a model S owns a second car, I don't...that money goes into an investment account.

Have you ever ridden a Zero motorcycle? I've been on their mailing list for a couple of years now and they have been improving the specs on their bikes constantly. They look pretty cool, but I'd love to hear a first person report.

yes, it is like... a motorcycle, but with as much torque as you could ever want. the app that lets you adjust torque curve and regen settings is wonderful if a bit wonky (I wish the volt had this!). The mileage is what it is, its not stellar but you can do >125mi if you are gentle on the throttle or <50 if you gun it. The only hiccup is the damn cost...I just can't justify the cost for a toy with such limited range.

For me, the range isn't an issue. I rarely drive my motorcycle more than 50 miles in a day and only around 600-1000 miles per year.

I really like the low maintenance aspect. Not having to do oil changes would be nice (because I don't ride much, I'm changing my oil every 400 miles).

that I understand...but many is it spendy

The Polaris GEM might meet your needs: http://www.polaris.com/en-us/gem-electric-car

Weird and cool .. how much do they cost though?

If you hit the build yours now button, they show a base price of $9k USD, plus freight.

At my university, there is another option very similar to the Twizy, but I haven't found the website yet.

Does it have to be electric? A vespa would get the job done with a pretty small carbon footprint.

Two-stroke engine pollution is massive.

I suggest getting 2 electrically assisted bicycles for that use case (if you are able to park them in a secure place).

Yes, I have (an) e-bike. Lots of fun in summer, not so much in winter.

How rural are you? Is biking crappy because of snow & ice? In which case, can you get away with a quad in the winter?

Rural, and we'd expect snow/ice in a normal winter, but this year we didn't get any at all. I was thinking more about a covered vehicle. The Twizy is (to a degree) covered, although the basic models lack side doors.

Dutch bike company Vanmoof just launched a new invisibly electric bike that can be pre-ordered at

https://preorder.vanmoof.com/?ct-referral-code=nw5wFevx

(shameless referral link they provided when I ordered mine)

I think you do a disservice when you try to label a design that distinctive as invisible anything.

It's nice that the electric drive is cleanly integrated, but it won't stop the bike getting attention.

This bicycle wouldn't raise many eyebrows in The Netherlands. I suppose it depends on where you're riding it.

Sure it won't raise eyebrows, the point is that it is easy to identify.

Vanmoof just emailed me the promo code vanmoof100 applicable to the above.

The cost is really mostly for range and safety features. Electric bikes are road legal and cheap, but not that safe. On a private trail without cars you can use two cheap options.

You can get an electric golf cart new for as low as 4k, with 5-10k being the average.

At the ultra low end you can buy an electric gokart for under 1k. Which is not that safe, sit's one person, and requires you to get really low to the ground.

PS: I think an unexplored option for a gated community is to include a custom track for electric cars to a community pool, restaurants, metro stop, etc. You would need tunnels / bridges to get around the car issue, but I think it would be cheaper than most Personal Rapid transit approaches.

The Renault Twizy is the one with a really expensive upfront price, plus a really expensive fixed-term battery rental on top that has both a monthly and mileage component, right?

That's the one :-) In the UK the up front cost is £8K for a reasonable spec'd one, then there's a £50/month cost for the battery. I currently spend less than £50/month on petrol (about half of that in fact), and my brand new car cost £9K. The economics of the Twizy just don't work out at all.

I use my Fiat 500e as a daily commuter to the BART rail station. That's a distance of 5 mi one way, and it's absolutely perfect for that.

That's £21K, over twice the price of my car. I said cheap.

The 500e is pretty cheap in California due to federal and state income tax credits and the oddities of the CARB emission credit systems. Their website lists the starting price in CA accounting for all the incentives as ~$18k, and there have been $99/month leases popping up every so often.

Dealer near me has offers of $50-99 per month pending down payment. The latter being $0 down. If that's not tempting..

> It's very expensive, and more worryingly there are lots and lots of them available on the second hand market, almost new, at greatly reduced prices.

So why not get a second hand one?

Not a NEV but you can get some pretty good deals on a used Mitsubishi iMIEV or its Peugeot iOn and Citroen C-Zero.

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