Money for Nothing: The Lucrative World of Club Appearances
gq.com
gq.com
They kind of answer that near the end, but I'm still left a bit befuddled. Apparently there's multiple(!) groups of people who will pay $25,000 dollars minimum to sit at a table near Nikki Minaj for an hour?
I can understand (if not condone) the birthday party thing, where you spend millions to get someone famous at your party, as by doing so you are saying "I have so many millions, I can do this ridiculous thing, or buy a famous painting, and still be richer than you". But it seems weird that it's a booming and widespread business model.
(which is admittedly hand wavy and ill informed, but there must be some limit to how efficiently a given economy can put capital to use, faced with abundance, that lack of efficiency might show up as outlier valuations of particular experiences. At least the recipients on the club side are likely to put the money to more comfortable purposes.)
I tend to think that the people spending money on this are unlikely to be the type of people capable of putting capital to a more 'efficient' or effective use.
Large numbers of fools with inheritances (the easy feel good explanation) still implies some lack of efficiency in the step that comes before them getting the inheritances.
Yes. There are tens of thousands of people (and most importantly, their children) for whom multi-million dollar annual expenses are fairly inconsequential.
There are also plenty of people who cannot afford such expenses, but who will nonetheless make them -- a fool and his money are easily parted.
And clubbing with celebrities -- especially for young people -- is among the best status symbols that money can buy. Not to mention that it can be fun, too. (The Lil Jon example in the article is good -- some celebrities are known for throwing really great parties. As with most goods, the really great is much more expensive than the normal stuff.) In a society that is greatly concerned with status and appearances, it is no surprise that this market exists.
Indeed.
For some people, what's big money for you or me is small change.
There is a common money laundering scheme where a criminal gang purchases a bar and buys a bunch of inventory. But they don't really try to earn a profit or have many real customers. They just write up fake receipts for cash "customers" and then deposit their dirty money. Most of the inventory gets poured down the sewer. The IRS will sometimes send agents to count actual customers going into such places when they suspect laundering.
Also where can you get a jeroboam of Veuve Clicquot or Dom Perignon for $300 wholesale? I'd love a link or more info since I would buy a bunch for parties.
I didn't specify brand. £230 Moet Jeroboam (including 20% VAT) - http://www.drinksupermarket.com/moet-chandon-imperial-brut-n...
What top grossing nightclubs in NYC aren't corporate affairs? All the top ones I can think of are; Tao, 1Oak, Lavo, PHD, VIP Room, etc. I'm sure there are smaller ones that are purely independent affairs but they aren't doing 10M+/year in revenue.
This, ofcourse, does nothing to explain why they'd need to pay famous people for appearances. I assume they do that because they expect to make money from it from real customers.
I know it's personal opinion and all, but I find it to be much better than both of the above.
Jeroboam for 183,64 € [1]
[1]: http://boutique.tsarine.com/catalogue/formats-speciaux/jerob...
It calls it a "Double Magnum", but others online call it a Jeroboam, which I think is technically correct for a 3L bottle of sparkling wine.
I'm not sure that's exactly right
I'm not exactly a regular club goer, but every once in a while I hear my co-workers talk about various places that members of the local NFL team were at the night before
it occurs to me that this makes for relatively effective branding for those places
if its a fun enough place for professional football players to party, it must be a fun enough place for regular people to party, etc etc
suddenly that place is a hot spot
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I suspect a similar thing is going on, you bring enough celebrities to create a buzz about your place
whether your place is actually fun enough to monetize that buzz.... I don't know, it really isn't my scene, but that might be a different thing
those places do seem to go in and out of business pretty regularly, I suspect overinvesting in buzz is relatively common
"Buy experiences, not things"
There aren't millions of such people, but in a big city with a big nightclub scene? Of course. Why do you think people complain about the 1% so much?
The rich are growing richer and the wealth gap is deepening, is happens all the time until the lower classes can no longer stand the abuse and revolt, after which usually a subset of the upper classes gets power and makes minor concessions to calm the mob. Usually this is followed by increased propaganda and controls to prevent another revolt from happening which leads to the people losing more power. Most of the media and sources of information are already in the hands of the elite and allied with their interests, so revolts are less likely and usually easily suppressed. The cycle continues. A police state and an Elysium-style separation of the elite from the plebs seems closer every day. People find it easier to ignore the struggle and suffering of people far away or people they don't see, even the impoverished and homeless in their own cities, because the media mostly ignores them, but most don't realize that they will soon also be in this class of ignored, powerless beggars and the elite class will be better protected and more isolated, allowing them to ignore the problems of the lower classes even more.
This isn't something new - 'Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous' from the 1980s was based on this exact kind of excess.
Marxism's taking in lodgers now?
If anyone's revolting its the Greeks and the Spanish, not Americans. And not because of "the rich" but because the feel good socialism they can't pay for is destroying a generation of wealth, work, and prosperity.
HN/Reddit unicorns like Brazil, Russia, Finland, etc are also all underperforming:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-11/meet-2016-...
Gee, maybe low regulatory environments, easy access to investment cash, entrepreneur culture, freedom of speech, honest elections, a real judiciary, capital protections, etc matter to an economy? Naww, keep ignoring the facts.
Not true, real unemployment (ie including homeless people, people that are unable to work, etc.) is quite high and rising. Many people are just completely excluded from the 'official' unemployment statistics. Mean GDP per capita is fairly high BUT median, which is a much more important metric of wealth inequality, is quite low and decreasing relative to mean. Not sure why you listed household income and GDP per capita as different things even though they are basically the same for this purpose... and high human development index says nothing about revolt, in fact higher educated and well-read people that are economically disenfranchised tend to be more outspoken and interested in the wealth gap.
> And not because of "the rich" but because the feel good socialism they can't pay for is destroying a generation of wealth, work, and prosperity.
80% of the American public is essentially completely politically disenfranchised, for most people in the US the net income adjusted for inflation and increasing costs is decreasing.
https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...
> And not because of "the rich" but because the feel good socialism they can't pay for is destroying a generation of wealth, work, and prosperity.
Greece and Spain are far from 'feel good socialism' compared to countries that are much closer such as Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, where quality of life and happiness is regularly rated as higher than the US.
> Gee, maybe low regulatory environments, easy access to investment cash, entrepreneur culture, freedom of speech, honest elections, a real judiciary, capital protections, etc matter to an economy? Naww, keep ignoring the facts.
Literally none of those things conflicts with socialism, socialism actually helps many of those things. But I guess you heard the good ol 'socialism bad hurr durr' on fox news or whatever and suddenly feel that is a basis to justify your misguided beliefs.
> Gee, maybe low regulatory environments
Yeah, that worked out magnificently in 2008.
Every country reports unemployment similarly. The system we use has classes, so yes you can look at both U3 and U6 and the still the US comes out on top, if compared to the same class. The US's high employment rate is unquestionable, as much as you hate it and wish it to be worse.
>. Mean GDP per capita is fairly high BUT median, which is a much more important metric
Real Median Household Income is almost excactly the GDP per capita in the USA.
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MEHOINUSA672N
https://www.google.com/search?q=gdp+per+capita+usa&ie=utf-8&...
>Greece and Spain are far from 'feel good socialism'
They absolutely are. Their programs are unaffordable, especially in Greece's case. The government is the biggest employer there and literally writes checks it cannot back because its bullied by the unions and leftist electorate to do so. Eventually you need to pay your bills and the Greeks simply cannot.
> Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, where quality of life and happiness is regularly rated as higher than the US.
Because people are naturally racists and in ethnocentrist cultures people are happy. White loves white. Why is that a plus to you? Melting pot life will always have more strife. Also those countires are a fraction of the size of the USA. Denmark is a mere 5m people, about half of the Chicago metropolitan area. Compared that to a 330m juggernaut is silly. Sweden is about the population of the Chicago metropolitan area. Germany has a multi-payer health care system just like the US does, its much more to the right than the other countries you mentioned.
>Yeah, that worked out magnificently in 2008.
Every country has economic issues that come and go. The US has been the lead performer since WWII. We're seeing the destruction of Greece right now with no real way out. There's very different than the once in 30 years recession almost all economies suffer from. Your precious Germany had some bad dealings both political and economically in the 30s and 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. I guess we arent allowed to talk about that ,but anything in the US's history is fair game, eh?
First of all, U3 and U6 are both not real unemployment. They exclude a large portion of the population from the statistic, like I already said, but you seem to have no idea what I'm talking about. Real unemployment which is usually taken as the number of people above 16 who do not work is about 40% in the US. Yes, there are reasons why people in this large group should be separated for statistical purposes but this number is the real unemployment, IE the actual number of people who are not employed.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/record-94610...
> The US's high employment rate is unquestionable, as much as you hate it and wish it to be worse.
You're really trying to sound like an idiot aren't you?
> Real Median Household Income is almost excactly the GDP per capita in the USA.
So now you are comparing MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD (OFTEN TWO OR MORE PEOPLE COMBINED) income to AVERAGE PER CAPITA (SINGLE PERSON) income? Really? Embarrassing.
Here is what the real median vs average incomes look like:
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html
http://qz.com/260269/painfully-american-families-are-learnin...
> They absolutely are. Their programs are unaffordable, especially in Greece's case.
So, your definition of 'feel good socialism' is 'they have unaffordable programs'? You amaze me with your depth of knowledge.
> Because people are naturally racists and in ethnocentrist cultures people are happy.
Sorry, go preach your NrX crap to the children over at /r/AnarchoCapitalism. It does not impress me.
> Denmark is a mere 5m people, about half of the Chicago metropolitan area.
How is that relevant, when their productive output is still dependent on their size?
> I guess we arent allowed to talk about that ,but anything in the US's history is fair game, eh?
You sound like an angry American redneck, who tries to yell 'Murica! Fuck yeah!' to whoever might hear you and try to defend America to people who don't have anything against the country in general and attack them with childish fallacious rants. All the while trying to cover up any issues that actually hurt American people. You are a brainwashed moron.
If you'd like this account not to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com. But please read the guidelines first:
> I guess we arent allowed to talk about that
Acerbic asides like these degrade the discussions here and typically provoke much worse from others, as happened in this case. Please eliminate nastiness from what you post here, regardless of how right and wrong you or someone else's views may be.
because i would posit that out of the countries that are economically performing well outside of the united states almost none have: low regulatory environments, easy access to investment cash, entrepreneur culture, freedom of speech, honest elections, a real judiciary, capital protections
if we are going to say we need to focus on empirical evidence then I dont think this elements are as important as you are making them out to be...
Obviously that's not actually how it works out -- lots of people who do this stuff are not billionaires, the above is not how billionaires finances work, etc. But it gets at the scale of money available to a top end group of people who are a minuscule fraction of the population but because the population is large, are actually a fairly sizable absolute number of people who can throw that kind of money around.
The same owners eventually ran the TAO clubs in Vegas. It's....interesting.
those people here talking about how it's convenient for laundering are missing this fact. you can point to the mega clubs in vegas as the few examples of those raking in money, but the vast majority of these clubs go out of business and make nothing. living in nyc there are handful of these big clubs that have been around for longer than a few years and even then, the popular ones have to "re-invent" themselves every few years to keep attendance up.
the more common story is that doors open, and you get some mediocre attendance and basically just losing money hand over fist every week thereafter. people come and see that your establishment isn't that popular and the next week even less people come. momentum is crazy important and i can see paying thousands for a guest appearance even if you're losing money that specific week.
Clubs bring in a lot of scrutiny. The 70s mafia movies made them look for but serious criminals have so many other options that dealing with them nowadays seems stupid. Do you really want a drunk or a whore or a gangbanger to bring police into your laundering operation regularly?
One operated here illegally for about five years because every time there was a motion to shut them down they found another avenue to appeal. The legal system can move at a glacial pace at the best of times, and they were clever enough to slow it down even more.
Five years is enough time to bank millions of dollars in legitimate profits and make even more on the side through more shady deals.
I know that many of the clubs here juice up their profits by laundering and taking a cut of the drug trade in their bathrooms. They also make enormous amounts of cash legitimately which makes it hard to find out what profits are legal and which are illegal.
For example if you charge $10 for a double shot, but the product only costs you (at most) $1, you're making 90% profit right out of the gate. If someone wants to launder some money, increase your shot sales by 20%. Pour out bottles if you have to just to make the numbers add up, it's not even hard.
Very few of them are ever snared in legal issues because they have a lot of experience flying under the radar and knowing how to operate without getting into trouble. The number one cause for closing a club is either the place burned out, popularity waned, or in rare cases where there was a shooting which means a much tighter leash.
To put it in perspective: If there's a report of using drugs in the bathrooms nothing will happen, it takes too much police work to amount to anything, but a single incident of alcohol leaving the premises can get you shut down. They're super strict about this.
From another perspective though, is GQ effectively proposing Paris Hilton as a disruptive innovation? I kind of except that...she effectively initiated the business of recursive celebrity (rich begets famous begets rich). I honestly wonder what scholars 2-300 years from now will have to say about the development of reality television from Survivor to The Simple Life/Paris Hilton to the Kardashians to whatever will come next...
and I cannot believe I just wrote this on HN
On the other hand, social media is just as driven in large part by pop-culture, but tech loves it. Beyond that, most people crave what she's managed to create, not the only rich person in the world, yet she managed to make it happen.
Now if it was only possible to make meaningful ideas & knowledge as viral using the same tactics.
Wait, why is the current royal family rich/famous?
Just wow.
For example Ronan Farrow and Chelsea Clinton were both paid hundreds of thousands by MSNBC for essentially nothing. I think it's rather telling that people would prefer to focus on someone like Nicki Minaj getting money in clubs, but that's just me.
Maybe it's just me, I guess. But when I look at someone like the Kardashians, honestly the only real reason they got this opportunity to be "famous for nothing" is their Hollywood connections. They certainly didn't rise up on their acting ability. The celebritization of "lucky sperm club" members as you mention also bothers me.
But, yeah, I don't get the article's attempt to drag other musicians / DJs / rappers into this. Well known musicians / performers going to a club and getting insane sums for simply performing? That's not news. Yes, today its EDM and rap in the club versus rock bands on the stage, but that's what is trendy now; big artists in the 1960s (your Beatles and whatnot) also got (2016 equivalent) six figure appearance fees too.
One can argue about the merits of the winner-takes-all nature of the entertainment industry, but it's a little less "money for nothing" in that case. Lil Jon did have to spin a set.
Guess that's just small potatoes.
99.9th percentile US net worth is about 30 million: http://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/feds/2015/files/20...
Arbitrarily assuming a 5% return on that, that's 1.5 million dollars a year, which is about $5K per day.
Go out to the club with a few of your .1% friends, and you are right in the $25K per table ballpark while still staying within budget.
For rappers, DJs, and Reality stars: this is called club appearances.
So these people are being paid not to, like, fake go to a club in front of cameras and it's work, but literally be paid to have fun.
I expect that the actuality of it is a little more complex than that, but there does seem like there's a grain of truth in it, too.
Clubs are places to enjoy the music — without phones, without friends, without stupid conversations. Things describes in that article are the exact opposite of this.
But, you know, I'm a giant nerd, so what do I know?
Well, it's certainly a scam!