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Comment by ljw1001 | Hacker News Reader

The idea that you can buy happiness is the great fairy tale of capitalism. Of course, other things equal, you are better off with more money. The problem is that if you choose to maximize income, other things aren't equal anymore.

Sure, more and better experiences can make you happier, but do you have to pay a lot for them for that to be true?

Searching for loopholes is not going to be as fruitful in the long run as choosing to play a different game.

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Capitalism is not the idea that you buy happiness. It's the idea that you freely trade with others to get items you need.

It creates abundance - even overabundance for some - and then one can choose what level of consumption they want. Less buying = higher savings = more capital or leisure time so capitalism can actually encourage savings.

Capitalism as a philosophical idea of free trade is far different than how corporate capitalism has actually looked in practice though. Not only in terms of power and information disparities and massive externalities making a mockery of the idea of "pure capitalism" (much as crushing and brutal authoritarianism made a mockery of "pure Communism") but also because advertising is a mind control weapon. I know its popular for smart people to think that advertising doesn't affect them but I can assure you that it is VERY hard to choose what level of consumption you want to live it while you are swimming in a sea of advertisements designed to make you feel unconsciously dissatisfied with what you have. The only experiment I could think of to counter this would be to live mostly off the grid or deep in an "undeveloped" country for a year or two and watch how your consciousness shifts. Otherwise it is like the fish that is looking for the water.

I never said it was.

The 'fairy tale' is the way media and especially, advertising, portray the benefits of consumption. The selling of this idea is a key part of capitalism, not as a concept, but as it's practiced today.

The philosophical position mounted by the author of Ecclesiastes, Albert Camus, and other existentialists is that being rich is nice and enjoying life is good, but the work and sacrifice it takes to achieve wealth isn't worth it. More and more research seems to be backing up this proposition, and why shouldn't it?

Working for even a short season of time at a pace that affects our relationships to those important to us leaves us with lost time. We irrevocably change our relationships slightly and miss out on important events. People say things like, "I'll make it up to them." The problem? You can't make up time to someone! Even if you have a lot of free time in the future, it is likely that your relations will not. Wealth is impossible to share in a socially acceptable way, and so you're left with wealth that only you will enjoy, for the most part.

Edit:

I'm not saying that the drive to make money shouldn't be there, but I'm not killing myself to get there.

Karl Jung also said that the keys to happiness were love and work. Both of which, incidentally, can be deeply engaging experiences that can be had even by the poor.

"Of course, other things equal, you are better off with more money."

This is not always true.

Posessions like money often bring with them envy and jealousy from others, who may try to deceive or hurt you to get what you have.

I recommend watching the documentary "Born Rich" for some relatively benign examples of the social isolation kids born in to rich families suffer, how some of them can't be sure if others genuinely like them or are just after their money, etc. It's also interesting to see how some of them reject their inheritances and try to live "normal" lives, without help from their families.

Then there are the less benign examples in the news all the time, of people getting conned, robbed, killed or kidnapped for their money.

The possession of money can also ruin families and relationships just as surely as the lack of money.

You are right. I overstated the position, which would be better stated as "Other things being equal, you are usually a little better of with a little more money".

Large differences in money kind of eliminate the possibility that other things remain equal.

I don't think everything is a fairy tale. Lots of our true happiness comes from basic things like security, eating well, education and good heath. In the current system, money can grantee you most of that.

An advanced capitalist country probably offers a good system for individuals to work and get those very important things. Without them, there's no happiness.

But, off course, we want more, much more. And after a certain point, it does start look like a fairy tale.

Well that's the point of hedonic treadmill that one has to keep earning more-spending more cycle going to be happy.

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