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Comment by danielhooper | Hacker News Reader

Canadian tech workers are underpaid and the weak dollar is making it even worse. You can practically double your purchasing power by going over the border and working in the states.

In my experience, finding a job here in Toronto as a programmer/developer/engineer/whatever has been VERY tough without a CS background (or any degree for that matter). Despite launching an app in the app store I still struggle to get interviews for even junior level positions, which in Toronto translates to around $50k - $60k. I could make the same amount of money waiting tables if I really wanted to.

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"Junior level positions, which in Toronto translates to around $50k - $60k. I could make the same amount of money waiting tables if I really wanted to."

So the going rates in Canada are in that range. I interviewed for a remote senior position (5+ years exp) for a start-up in Toronto (that from brief research looked to be profitable, so I went ahead).

My jaw dropped when they said they were targeting $25 (CAD) an hour, with the exchange rate that's less than $19 (US) an hour. My sentiment was the same as yours, at $19 (US) an hour I could make the same amount of money teaching plain English anywhere in the world. It looks like they don't even do a cross-check for other industry rates, just fluent English can net you the same rates as an English teacher in practically any market.

It's mostly an estimated guess. It seems your real example is more accurate. How long ago was this?

I was recently working for a start-up in Toronto as well. They told me they could no longer afford me after billing them only ~$10,000 CAD for two months of work building the only product they were ever going to have. It worked out to close to $20-$25 CAD an hour as well.

Well. I do not want to be rude but launching an app does not equal that you are entitled to 60k a year. This is becoming more clear than ever that doing IT no longer equals good salary in crowded places like London etc.

Demand is decreasing and companies that offer services for free are undervaluing (think Google, Microsoft) our salaries.

Not to be rude again but there's a fierce competition out there and good enough does no longer translate into instant $$$. Canada is still a very rich country and when you compare the wages with India,Vietnam or Eastern/Central Europe it's hard to compete. These people are becoming "good enough" and paying more becomes harder and harder to justify if you can just hire senior dev in India or Eastern Europe for 40k $ a year.

It's basically the same with degrees. Your customer does not care if the app / product has been made by a person with a degree. It's the same for us. We do not want to pay (money or time does not matter) for a degree if we can get the education for free...somehow.

You don't come off as rude at all. Sorry if my comment comes off as entitled. I only feel slightly entitled haha.

You certainly are correct on how tough the competition is here. I'm in a bit of a pickle where I've been getting by on small projects for clients, but have yet to find an opportunity to work at a larger company with other developers I can teach and learn from as well, which I believe will help me launch a solid career as a developer. I'm looking forward to one day having the privilege of receiving recruiter spam everyday. :p

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