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Comment by ryandrake | Hacker News Reader

As someone closing in on 40, the depiction of this place does indeed seem like hell.

To all the ex-Hubspot people getting defensive: This article isn't about that specific company. Hubspot was the author's convenient example. It's about the ideas that companies like it exemplify: That work has to be "a cross between a kindergarten and a frat house" (I'd add "a cult"). That work should include partying and nerf guns and dodgeball outings. That you have to always pretend your company is about "leading a revolution" or changing the world. That you have to follow its culture and believe in its mission and values. That your work has to be more than an exchange of your labor for money. That's what this article is about, and that's what all the cynicism about tech startup culture is aimed at--not Hubspot in particular.

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Cynicism is fairly easy, defining the alternative is harder. For example based on what you describe the characteristics of what makes the startup culture "like hell", it sounds like you prefer that work should be nothing more than an exchange of your labor for money, you don't interact with your colleagues other than work, company to not have a defined mission and values other than making money. A hired gun to do whatever we're paid to do. That's also definition of hell for many of us. I don't know whether the author has anything constructive in his book but judging what's in the article, looks like it's pure snark.

One man's utopia is another man's dystopia.

Absolutely.... why would you work if you weren't getting paid for it?? I have better things to do with my time than make someone else's company more profitable at my expense.

We're all here to make money... and yes, HubSpot sounds like a true hell to me (yes, I'm over 40).

Actually, cynicism can be fairly painful.

It grows from a lot of moments.

One moment your leader is asking all the employees if they're ready to change the world. Everyone thinks the company is a rocketship. They slave away into the moonlight and beyond. The next moment, the leaders gets everyone together and announces news that don't quite match what was promised before. Sad faces. Stiff upper lips. No worries, we can work past this.

The moment after that: more bad news starts trickling in. Then a flood. Then empty desks. Maybe, you get out first. Maybe, you're the first to discover your key card won't let you in the building anymore.

Throughout these moments, the faces of your comrades-in-arms will stay with you; the way the light in their eyes fades and fades and fades. You were "family", you were together, you were united in purpose...

And now what are you?

Fast forward years later. Your friends from the old startup no longer talk to each other. They all work at big companies. You're interviewing at a fresh up-and-comer. Someone 10 years your junior sits you down and asks if you're ready to change the world.

What do you say?

... Writing aside, I think the best company cultures tend to be filled with people who have been fooled before (the essence of cynicism) yet still manage care about what they're doing and building. These folks also tend to have meaning and identity outside of their work.

Well articulated. Clear description of what pushes us to become more and more cynical. I find it far easier to empathize with you than the author. It did not feel justified (based on the article).

I hope that it does not have to be this way. I hope we can create companies that strive to be better. Culture does not have to mean one has to put the company above everything else. Making the environment that we spent most of our lives better requires more than nerf guns and ping pong tables. Having meaning and identity outside works in essential. I just don't want to give up the working hours. May be I have not been fooled enough times ...

I appreciate the hope you have for the future. I, too, would not like to give up the working hours, though I have yet seen observe a general-purpose, adequate solution that works outside of extremely specific situations[1].

Perhaps "Insufficient data for meaningful answer" as a certain computer would say.

[1]Certainly not "Management Consulting" :) http://paulgraham.com/before.html

Sprinkling ping pong tables, nerf guns and turning the workplace into an adult daycare doesn't make company culture or define a mission statement.

Having beer Wednesdays where we stay late and drink or we'll get odd looks doesn't make company culture.

Lying to ourselves about the true value of what we're doing by sprinkling revolutionary and disruptive and ... doesn't make a mission statement.

There's nothing wrong with coming to work to do work and the fulfillment being a job done well to the best of your abilities.

It's freaking marketing. There is no greater purpose other than to get people to buy shit, often stuff that they don't need.

Don't for one moment there is a great purpose around this HubSpot than that. The fact that they talk about inspirational stuff in training sessions doesn't mean that they do anything significant.

HubSpot could go bust tomorrow, and the world would still pretty much remain the same.

As someone closing in on 30, it sounds horrendous indeed.

At my last start-up the average age of all employees was 39.5. There were still some assholes.

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