When did porn become sex ed? | Hacker News Reader

When did porn become sex ed?

nytimes.com

47 pointskelukelugames33 comments

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Lest this discussion devolve into "lel, US so prude": Outdated sex ed exists or at least existed in Germany as well. Which is why over the past years several federal states have updated theirs (sometimes much to the chagrin of reactionaries who don't like that e.g. homosexuality is included in the curriculum).

When I went to school in the 90s, sex ed at my school was "penis in vagina, then pregnancy" plus contraception. No mention of consent, erogenous zones, social pressure, different sex positions, homosexuality etc. or even the simple fact that sex, when done correctly, feels good.

A few years later though there was a lecture by a doctor of a local hospital about AIDS, which was much more in-depth: I recall us listening, rapt in our attention, when he showed us various sex position on the overhead projector and then asked about the risk of infection with HIV (we were wrong most of the time). He was laid back, knowledgeable and funny.

Too late

As a European, I find it strange and amusing that Americans are so afraid of sex.

Here (in Italy, in Spain, in Netherlands, in Sweden) sex is good, normal and nothing of much interest, just a regular part of life.

It's not so much "Americans", as the sniveling snots who write and frequent what remains of the New York Times. They don't seem to understand that some people might in fact enjoy sex, maybe explore variety; and leave judging to the courts.

That said, I've heard some rather sad or misleading material come from programmes in essentially every corner of the states. It seems like the sort of thing a publisher could remedy by providing an excellent and scientifically-supported course free of moralization to one or another side of the debates.

I grew up in Canada, and had an okay sex ed class. I hear from teachers that things have gotten worse over the last few years, likely owing to to socjus pressure on schools. They are now completely misleading about consent; and seem to easily convince boys that they are not worthy of saying no; and girls that they can lead people along endlessly.

When I visited the US, I was in Boston and NYC. Perhaps things are different on the other coast. :)

Are you blaming the NYT for the sorry state of sex ed in schools? You seem to be responding to something entirely different from TFA.

sex != porn

EDIT: downvoting me for saying that porn is different than sex is like downvoting me if i'd said Hollywood movies are different than reality...

Porn is also nothing special here.

Where is "here"?

Europe?

Then I'd like to know in which part of EU "porn is nothing" or whatever is the meaning of this. Because I live in Europe and I don't know any EU states that doesn't tons a laws about pornography.

All right, what are the laws in, say, Germany or Spain? Except for some basics like "it's better not to show outright porn on national TV channels, at least before 11PM".

In Spain, exposing minors (under 18) to porn/violence/gambling/alcool/drugs get you to jail.

For Germany you can Google it yourself.

That may be true, but in Spain pornography is shown daily after 11pm. Any minor who can stay up late, and has access to a television will see it if they desire.

Essentially the same is true in the USA or anywhere in the world, any minor who has unrestricted access to the internet can see pornography.

Except that this is the case when reality is so much better and sensual than Hollywood movies.

Porn is sensual? Yeah ok... better visiting motherless.com than reading this kind of bullshit.

// @TODO: fix this downvotable comment, might result in bad karma

His comparison implied that actual sex is 'better' than pornography. It's more sensual. Draws harder on the emotions, and involves more drama and mess than is depicted in pornography.

If anything pornography is a whitewash of the rich tapestry of sex to make it into something bland, banal, and utterly mechanical wherein you can slot the entire act into single categories and stick them on a website.

As an American, I wonder where Europeans think American babies come from. And why Europeans don't seem to have them.

Because, in modern world, thankfully, sex and childbirth can be completely unrelated to each other, and people can have exactly as many babies as they want?

Yes, but here in the US childbirth doesn't happen without sex. Maybe Europe is different.

Good article, but this curriculum needs mentioned: Our Whole lives - http://www.uua.org/re/owl .

Having recently completed my first facilitation of the Adult OWL curriculum and seen the impact it had on participants, I highly agree with you.

Is it true that Victorian era made pornography a thing ? it seems such an absurdity (pornography that is, not the Victorian theory).

Not at all. There were changes in public perception of sexual activity for the upper class during the Victorian era, but much of "pornography" dates back to earlier and a much more religious context—western pornography has been evolving since the printing press, more or less.

Source: http://www.annalspornographie.com/

EDIT: the word "pornography" itself may date to the time period (mid nineteenth century).

It would be funny if it wasn't so sadly predictable. If you don't teach kids about it, they'll learn from unrealistic depictions in the media.

Fuck, I too have the same situation. Is there some online sex ed material?

How about this one (not only about sex ed): http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/

I can't recommend this channel enough. Dr. Doe is knowledgable and fun to watch. https://www.youtube.com/user/sexplanations

I don't understand how a liberal person can defend criticising how other people chose to have sex.

Young American couples are choosing more frequently to have anal sex. Unless it's rape, what business is that of yours?

This article presents the rise of some sexual practices such as anal and oral, as somehow fundamentally problematic.

You have sex how you want to have sex, I'll have sex how I want to have sex, and as long as nobody is being raped it's none of our business what the other person is doing.

The problem is that they're not enjoying it (as the article backs up with stats).

It's our business as a society if we are failing to educate the next generation to have enjoyable sex.

The thesis of the article is that the porn industry is filling this void. It's as if the WWE was in charge of our PE programs.

I recommend reading the article a little closer if that's all you took away from it. I didn't see anything about criticizing the sexual practices people choose to engage in. But there were some good points about what happens when women are not taught that they are supposed to enjoy sex just as much as men do.

That's a complete misrepresentation of the article's argument. It presents the rise of those practices as problematic when they are performed under duress, when the act is painful, or when there is a lack of reciprocity in sexual relationships. All of those things are problematic, and the author draws a link between those problems and the prevalence of porn-as-sex-ed. I don't think there's anything wrong with porn, but I do think there's a problem with this:

> Yet according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, fewer than half of high schools and only a fifth of middle schools teach all 16 components the agency recommends as essential to sex education. Only 23 states mandate sex ed at all; 13 require it to be medically accurate.

That says to me that the problem isn't porn, it's a ridiculous refusal to educate kids about sex, which leaves them to scrape together that education from porn, internet sources, and peer knowledge, which is a recipe for disaster.

Did we just read the same article? Because, the article I read was talking about how a lack of sex education, and people turning to porn as an alternative, has contributed to the ways people relate sexually being full of pain, duress, and lack of reciprocation — or even understanding.

You apparently read one that said little more than, "Butt stuff is dirty."

I'm all for people getting it on in whatever ways they agree to get it on, but I think people should be agreeing from a place of having been properly informed of more than just gross anatomy (if even that), and that things like consent and respect are as important a part of the broader category of "sexual education" as are pregnancy and STIs.

But I suppose that's somehow telling people they're wrong, too?

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