Newbie Fashion Tips for Grown-up Men | Hacker News Reader

Newbie Fashion Tips for Grown-up Men

lifehack.org

294 pointsnathanh171 comments

Almost all of this is solid. One small quibble:

"Black tie" means tuxedo. If your host doesn't really mean black tie, that's their mistake, not yours. Don't get a black suit. Everything a black suit can do, a charcoal suit does better.

I only bring this up because people seem to think black suits are essential. They aren't. You won't get funny looks, but you won't look as good as you would in charcoal.

BONUS TIP: Match your socks to your pants, not your shoes. You want to draw attention to the shoes/leg boundary, not the sock/trouser boundary.

BONUS LINK: http://www.styleforum.net is where I learned what I wanted to know about tailored men's clothing. Scour the stickies; dip into the daily threadpiles only with caution.

I'd also add the askandyaboutclothes.com forums.

Wow that domain name took me about 20 seconds to parse :/

also http://www.throughtherye.com/flusser/index_current.html

for one of Alan Flusser's excellent books on the matter

Particularly Flusser's "Style and the Man" and "Dressing the Man". I can't upvote you enough, he literally wrote the book on men's fashion.

The main problem with this article is it doesn't stress proportion nearly enough. Proportion/fit trumps all.

This is why I like the tech industry and the west coast so much. Because I can wear jeans and a geeky t-shirt to a 6 figure salary office job and nobody thinks there's a damned thing wrong with that.

I have a suit, I wear it extremely rarely and only because I want to, not because I feel forced to do so by society or office culture. I disagree that I am thus not a "grown-up" by some absurd definition. Some people take fashion seriously, others take a more relaxed attitude, that doesn't make either better or more mature than the other.

Fashion is one of those things (like etiquette, social norms and maybe religion) that you need to understand to willfully ignore. You're making just as much of a statement by wearing jeans and a t-shirt as someone wearing a suit. For me a truly relaxed view on fashion is when, while other peoples view of you might change with your appearance, your view of yourself never does. Insight over ignorance.

Revealing information is not the same thing as making a statement.

Richard Stallman deliberately tells you his website/etc is powered by free software. You can infer from the http headers of my homepage that it is powered by free software. Stallman is making a statement, my host (NYU) is just not bothering to obfuscate headers.

Similarly, a person who wears comfortable, easy clothes is just revealing information. A person who actively selected their clothes based on the message they send is making a statement.

English is not my first language and I find it very frustrating when people nitpick on words. The first year of my fashion studies was (more or less) devoted to the meaning of the word 'fashion', but I still manage to understand what people mean by using it.

What I meant was statement in the sense of fashion[1], which is the connotation of your clothes, 'reavealing information' as you put it. But if you are deliberately buying geeky t-shirt or 'easy' clothes, you are still making a conscious statement, for example "I'm a geek" and "I prefer comfort over fit". In the event that the selection of your clothes is not deliberate, there's still the connotation of them. For example, with 'easy' clothes some may look at you as a slob, while others sees you as laid back.

While you can be outside of the 'fashion system', your clothes still have meaning, to you and to others. If you want to read a proper simile regarding fashion, i.e. not with http headers, I can (almost) recommend the works of Roland Barthes [2].

[1] http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_561533193/fashion_statemen... [2] http://books.google.com/books?q=roland+barthes+fashion

I agree. I have no interest in fashion as defined by the article, and I'm okay with that. And my co-workers are, too.

It's been interesting watching my father's fashion change over the years. He has worked, varying capacities, as a manager or executive at a mechanical engineering and construction firm for his entire life. In the 1970s and 1980s, he wore a suit to work every day. In the mid 1990s (coinciding, I should add, with his promotion to president), the dress at the office changed to business casual, even when lunching with clients, and now, jeans are normal around the office unless meeting with clients.

Oh noes! If you do that, shallow girls who want your money won't sleep with you! Oh noes! (Did I say "oh noes"? Oh noes!)

(Sorry, some of the comments above really irked me. "Buy expensive shoes because that's what girls look at." The ones that are settling for you over their favorite TV star that they can't get, anyway.)

There's nothing wrong with wanting shallow girls to sleep with you.

Well, at least I now understand why in every thread about marriage there are about 40 comments that read, "never get married, women are evil!"

http://xkcd.com/150/

True in Austin also. Jeans + t-shirts + sneakers are pretty much standard. Causualness is further necessitated by the heat in the summers.

I'd add a few more things. Make sure your shirt and jacket fit. The most common things I see are men with collars too big for them so there's this huge gap between the front of the neck and the knot of the tie. Make sure your shirt fits snug, along with the suit jacket. The suit jacket should follow the contour of your sides, not hang straight down. It should look tailor-made for your body shape, and those with jackets that drop straight down on the sides look as if they purchased a one-size-fits-all suit. Also, ties should reach mid-buckle, and the knot should be appropriate for the occasion. I see lots of guys at weddings who tie their knot using the simplest method and it looks too casual. Look up various tie knots like the half-windsor, etc. And as he said, your pants should reach the floor, but they should also drape nicely around your shoes. I see lots of guys with bulky dress shoes that cause scrunching of the pant leg at the ankle because there's not enough room for the pants to fit over the shoe and drape; so pick slim fitting shoes.

I disagree with him on the shinier the shoe the dressier and that they should be made of leather. I've got slip-on black suede shoes that work really well when dressing up.

The most important thing is that the clothes actually be comfortable. There is nothing less flattering than a person wearing clothes that he'd obviously not be wearing.

This has the following implications:

- If you are overweight, maybe a button down shirt is just going to bunch up and come untucked and look untidy. If so, you'll look better with a quality t-shirt on underneath a suit than with a button down.

- Shoe quality is among the biggest signals of your overall wardrobe quality. Don't skimp on shoes. A high quality pair of shoes will not require much break in and will be extremely comfy.

- All suits (and jackets, and most pants) need tailoring for comfort and appearance. You are slightly asymmetrical and having it tailored by a skilled tailor will make it look 10x better.

- Suits are made to be as comfy as pajamas. There is a reason investment bankers tolerate them. If yours isn't, it's either a lousy suit or it needs to be tailored.

Also,

- Do not have your suit dry cleaned more than once every two years unless something catastrophic happens. Just hang it on a quality hanger after you take it off and let it air out.

- There are probably some types of clothing that just don't look good on you. Figure out what they are and avoid them.

> - Do not have your suit dry cleaned more than once every two years unless something catastrophic happens. Just hang it on a quality hanger after you take it off and let it air out.

My mother-in-law swears on hanging your woolen suit in the bathroom while you take a shower. The steam helps with the airing out.

Not airing out; but it does get the wrinkles out.

Yes. And it's supposed to help with smells, too. (As far as I know.)

> Suits are made to be as comfy as pajamas I figured this out way too late. I went to a school where there was a uniform and the jackets were of course very lousy and I kept that impression that suits were uncomfortable for many years. Until for an occasion I had to purchase a suit and decided that if I owned only one, I should get a really good one. I was so surprised how comfortable it is! It really is like wearing pyjamas.

>Suits are made to be as comfy as pajamas. There is a reason investment bankers tolerate them. If yours isn't, it's either a lousy suit or it needs to be tailored.

Wearing a tie to bed sounds like a form of mild torture.

Either your shirts don't fit, or you're tightening your tie more than you need to.

Good advice; I'd like to add rule 0: Lose some weight, and wear clothes that fit.

I would rate this article as very basic at best. I became very interested in fashion after I needed to learn about it (long story). One thing you'll see a lot of -- and this article is guilty of this too -- is that clothes should fit well. Duh. The thing is, it's very rarely explained what that actually means. Part of the reason is that a lot of people writing these things simply don't know, beyond a few basics (listen to a tailor or a fashion designer who understands drape, etc). The other part is that the definition of "good fit" changes with time. Currently, the trend for mens fashion is for slim fitting garments. In two years that might change.

Dressing well is not about wearing certain types of prescriptive clothing ("thou shalt wear a slim-fitting button-down oxford, slim chinos, and expensive longwings") but rather, is about dressing appropriately for the context, and choosing your clothes with a little care. This means fit, but it also means making sure the colors and patterns work well together (I can expand on this topic a bit more if anyone is interested).

i absolutely agree on context. you are participating in a kind of conversation; the statement you make takes its value not from the absolute measure of what you wear, but how it contrasts with the assumed standards of your particular environment.

it might be worth emphasising that for many "nerds" that probably means that taking more care over your choice of jeans + t shirt is better advice than how to pick a suit. (i say this because i asked my american co-workers if they had any sense of what "well dressed" meant and all their answers focussed on formal wear. that's missing over 50% of the point).

A fedora is one affectation that a man can't truly pull off unless they're old enough to have fought in the Korean War (Vietnam if Black). Don't be that guy: http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/uua4Mm6Fp

I disagree. I wear a fedora somewhat frequently, and everyone says it really suits me (not lying/puffing- just trying to convey that it's not just me). I think the key is venue. Don't wear a fedora to work or every damn day. Wear it out occasionally, and match your outfit to it carefully.

I saw a guy wear a derby hat and trenchcoat on the T today. Looked like John Steed, or a douchebag trying to put on a John Steed affectation.

I wonder how many pizza goiters are in his friend list?

I bought one of these hats recently http://www.truffaux.com (I think it's the Snakeskin one.. nice and simple) and I'm very happy with it. Like subwindow says: don't wear it all the time. I just wear it every now and then. Sometimes I feel like a bit of a wanker by wearing something that's not super normal, but I think that's probably generated by self-consciousness and doesn't really have much validity. At least that's what I tell myself :)

My sister's a fashion maven. I'm a geek. She once told me: "You could pull off a hat. But first you'd have to change your whole personality." YMMV :)

I wear a rabbit felt fedora. More casual than the feather-in-the-band style, and waterproof, without looking like a Tilley hat.

I've seen a guy pull it off. But it was in a more casual setting (still well dressed).

As the author describes, one reason technical people don't dress well is because they never learned how. Another reason is that techies are unconventional and don't place a high priority on mainstream standards. That being said, I've been fashion hacking for half a year now and the results have been great. Here's some concrete advice based on my experience. Note that I'm 20; people who have been professionals for 15 years and have kids probably dress differently. I'm also average height and average weight, so you'll have to make adjustments if you are tall/short/whatever.

Tshirts. Fitted solid color shirt with jeans that fit and shoes that impress = coffee shop, homework at the library, class. Easy as pie, and if you get the fit right and are in decent shape you look good.

Casual collared shirts. For general wear get bright, solid color fitted ones. Bar, restaurant, class, whatever. It's a very flexible look because you can switch in/out jeans and slacks. Express's 1MX shirts are a solid choice (http://bit.ly/cXBvxS) and very popular for this type of role.

Collared shirts for your suit. Go to a tailor. Get measured. Go to a store that sells suites like Men's Warehouse. Get two white shirts, a powder blue shirt, and a light gray shirt and you are done. Don't complicate things with strips or harder colors if you are just starting. If you want to add personality to your shirt you can do it with a tie You're going for these kinds of looks: http://bit.ly/bwI7zG, http://bit.ly/16mDVK, and http://bit.ly/97P8ld.

Hoodies. Buy two solid color ones, one navy and one grey. No branding, no weird details, no nothing. Solid color only. You can't really improve your look with hoodies, but you can really mess it up by buying one that isn't a solid color. Example (from JCrew): http://bit.ly/bcG2uB.

Graphic Tees. These are hard. You have to be younger to pull off a graphic tee and even then the single to noise ratio in terms of nice/ugly graphic tees is really high. You're probably better off avoiding them

Polos. it's very tough to find ones that fit well. I've had decent success with the custom fit from Raulph Lauren (http://bit.ly/clGtz5). But please, don't buy a polo with a huge logo on the front. Examples: This one from Raulph Lauren (http://bit.ly/arvbbg) and this one from Express (http://bit.ly/9VX3oB) are both BAD choices. A big logo just doesn't look good, and it makes it seem like you are brand dropping.

Something for parties. Something that's a little different. Do not buy this until you are ready. Go with your graphic tee or a regular collared shirt until you are confident enough to pick something cool. Example (from Express): http://bit.ly/9AOupm.

Jeans. Don't get designer jeans. Don't get them torn. Don't get them baggy. Regular or slim fit only. Get them in colors ranging from dark blue to blue/gray. Do not get light blue. Do not get jeans that are too long. They should never, never touch the ground and they should cover 1/4 to 1/2 of your shoe laces when you are standing.

Casual Shoes. Women notice shoes. Seriously. It's really interesting how much they look at your shoes. You can have everything else right, but if your shoes are big blocky white gym shoes, you have failed. I say this as someone who bought big blocky white gym shoes from freshman year in high school to sophomore year in college. The good news is that you can crowd source style selection by looking at Zappos's most popular (http://bit.ly/bep8vN). Once you have the style selection, just make sure you get a decent color. I own a pair of these (http://www.zappos.com/multiview/126799/14074).

Boots. Get something that looks good but does what it is supposed to do (stand up to the elements). I've had a good experience with Red Wing. The company used to make the shoes for the US Army during WWI and WWII, so they make a quality, durable product. I own a pair of these (http://www.amazon.com/Red-Wing-Shoes-Gentleman-Traveler/dp/B...) and they are awesome (but really expensive :-/ ). I've used them constantly in the snow and hold up great, plus they look good too.

Coat. You should get a wool pea coat. You should stop wearing your Northface that is the side of a small tent. Example (from J Crew): http://bit.ly/cVNqg2. Peat coats are a proven style that have been around forever. A nice coat is a really expensive investment and you don't want to buy one that will look bad when your style changes as you get older.

Sunglasses. Authentic aviators that have frames that fit your face. Done. Like the pea coat, aviators have been around for a long time and there are only a few people who truly don't look good in them.

Also, a few general tips:

Fit is the key to everything. It doesn't matter how much you spend on clothing or how well you match your colors. You will not look good if your clothes don't fit. Period. Everything you get should be slim fitting. Odds are 10 to 1 that the jeans you are wearing right now are far too baggy. Loose clothing was one of my most difficult habits to break.

Do not accept anything less than exactly what you want. Settling for clothing is the worst thing you can do. The legs on the pants you just bought half an inch too long? Return them. The collar of the shirt a little too tight? Return it. There are billions of styles and billions of fits out there. Taking a shortcut to save some time is not the road to success. You have to keep searching until you find a fit and a brand that you really, really like.

Focus first on making choices that don't look bad. It's actually really difficult to develop this skill. Once you can consistently make choices that aren't bad, you can start being more risky and shoot for things that look good.

--- Yesh, that turned out to be longer than expected. It was kind of a brain dump, so I apologize if there are parts that don't make sense.

EDIT: One more thing. The first rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club. Wearing nice clothes is something you do, but it's not something you brag about. Your clothes and brands don't define you and they don't change who you are. The only things clothes do is get in the way (if they are bad) or complement what you already have (if they are good). It's like being rude or polite in a conversation; it doesn't change the content of the conversation, but things can be really ugly or really pleasant depending on the choices you make.

This all feels ... overwhelming.

And the point about fit is nice but I am not fit. I, like many, perhaps most americans am overweight. clothes are made for normal, maybe slender and fit people and it just seems like fatties need not apply.

as a result, i hate going clothes shopping. in fact, i haven't done so in many years. it just feels like it is for the physically elite and i feel like i'm back in middle school getting stared at. this is my own problem but it doesn't change it.

As someone who is also overweight, I feel your pain. But you just have to suck it up, grow up, and get out there and try on lots of clothes.

This is where if you have some extra money it can be worth going to higher end stores. Their sales people are usually willing to spend time with you to find the clothes your looking for.

For me, my legs are thick, so I simply cannot wear slim or regular fit jeans. So I have to look for relaxed jeans but without being too baggy. I usually run about a 15:1 try-to-buy ratio, even though I avoid slim/regular fit jeans.

I also have wide shoulders and so I cannot wear untucked button-up shirts. Any casual button-up shirt that I wear untucked, and which fits my shoulders, ends up hanging to my knees. This is true even of shirts that are made short in order to be untucked. I just accept that I cannot wear that style and move on.

You'll just have to find your way by trying on clothes and buying only the ones that fit well.

Let me say that, even if you are not a clothes person, once you find a few nice pieces, it will feel good to wear them.

It's not just overweight that's the problem. I'm normally a bit overweight. This is offset by being somewhat stronger than average in build - a t-shirt that fits snuggle around my chest but falls quite wide around the waist will hide a lot of my excess weight. But these are generally pretty hard to find.

The bigger problem is trousers - generally it doesn't matter how fit I am, the size of my thighs (muscle again, played rugby from a young age) will stop any trousers from fitting me properly. Anything that fits around the thighs is guaranteed to be several inches too big around the waist (no, a belt doesn't solve this all the time: ruins cut and comfort).

The problem is as much with the attitudes & economics of high street fashion as it is with you. I don't get as frustrated and depressed shopping when I'm in better shape physically but it's still a very unpleasant experience - and that's without even thinking about style.

Most people say "go tailored" with all the obvious expense and silliness of asking for tailored jeans etc. Buying and adjusting is more realistic if you or someone you know can sew or wants to learn (or maybe affordable professionally). But again, sadly, many high street clothes don't have sufficient build quality or extra material (at least one tailor refused me on that basis).

Always seemed to me that there is a business opportunity for providing web-ordered clothes. If the fittings were better than a single number, and were consistent, it would be a great service from the consumer point of view. Perhaps difficult to get started from the business one though, before the volume is large enough/process easy enough?

Welcome to being a woman. Remember how the old ideal figure for a woman was a small waist and big hips? It turns out that being shaped that way means shopping for jeans is impossible--unless you want them to be skin-tight on your thighs and rear and so big on your waist that your underwear shows when you bend over. My hips are 37 inches. My waist is...well, Lucky jeans made for a 25 inch waist (their smallest size) are about an inch too big on my waist (and barely possible to pull up over my rear). I have a friend with a 30 inch waist and 44 inch hips. I have no idea how she finds anything that fits her.

My solution is to always wear skirts. I wear long skirts year round. In the winter, I wear leggings under them (stretchy!) for warmth. Maybe you could get a Utilikilt?

Really, though, I suggest you learn to sew. I've been sewing since I was 3 or so. If a toddler can do it, you can do it! I've started taking in my shirts that are too baggy so that they fit my waist properly.

ETA: I have noticed that yoga pants, because of their sheen + stretchiness, can pretend to be slacks for women! One lady I know has pinstriped yoga pants. Looking at her, you'd never know she was wearing comfy pants, not proper slacks.

Same problem. 30 inch waist, but my thighs are bursting out of 30 inch pants. I typically buy 32 inch and have them taken in for $6 at the dry cleaner.

Unfortunately most conventional stores don't stock any sizes large enough. The three sizes on the rack is what you get, and if you move to a country with an average size smaller than you (or like something in a shop that treats male fashion consumers as rake-thin models just like the females), you're basically out of luck nearly 100% of the time.

I generally don't find anything larger than 36" waist where I am and that's already got room to spare at the actual waist. Of course leg length is also an issue - anything bigger than 34/36 and you must have 2m legs, right? And then adjustment prices are high too :S

It's all about how you approach the problem. Since I am average weight and height, I approach the problem of fashion from that perspective. Since you are not, you need a different strategy.

Take Kevin Smith for example. Directed Clerks, played Silent Bob, etc. He's a big dude. In fact, he recently got kicked off of Southwestern Airlines for being too fat. Now, you'll never look at Kevin Smith and think he's fashionable. But you wont think he's a slob either. His strategy is to take care of his face, choose glasses that fit his body type, get a good haircut, wear black, and wear layers. Examples: http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/19-kevin-smith-WI-0..., http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/kevin-smith-the-simp..., http://www.celebritywonder.com/picture/Kevin_Smith/KevinSmit.... Not fashionable per se, but the dude goes to movie premiers and gets interviewed by the press like that. You just have to figure out what works well for you.

Sorry, but whoever told Kevin Smith to wear baggy shorts with sneakers and no socks to a red carpet function ought to be shot.

I'll admit, his selection of glasses fits his face, but taking fashion advice from someone who's signature look is a backwards baseball cap, trenchcoat, and all black?

I'm a skinny twig & my problem is that most of the clothes on the market from mainstream brands have waaaaay too big of a gut when cut reasonably in the arms, shoulders, and legs.

Another big guy reporting in. I tried a few different dress shirts and professional pants before I found one fit/type of each that I stuck with religiously. I used to have anxiety about clothes shopping, specifically for professional dress. Almost every article of clothing didn't fit well because of my belly. After finding 1 type of each (as mentioned in an earlier reply), I've never been happier with my wardrobe.

Look no further than William Taft for an example of a larger man who is, to this day, widely admired for his sartorial elegance.

Sure, you're not going to be wearing the ultra-slim fit clothes that are trendy with a certain crowd right now, but that's only one small segment of the population. The world would be a very dull place if we all dressed the same way.

Learn what works well for your body, and it will help your confidence enormously. For example, a pair of properly fitting pleated dress khakis, and a nicely fitted blazer would be an easy look to do well no matter your size.

clothes are made for normal, maybe slender and fit people and it just seems like fatties need not apply.

I'm not sure that's true. I'm well within the recommended weight range (fat percentage ~20%-21%). But I have a muscular neck (too much head-banging in my youth?). Not too musculare, I don't look like a football player. But enough to make a difference, it seems.

A shirt that I can button around my neck is always much too fat for me. Even a "fitted" shirt has a circumference at least 8" greater than my girth.

It would seem that whomever clothes are fitted for, it's neither those who have a more ample size, nor even someone in the recommended range.

Lose some weight then, the hacker's way :

http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html

The "Hacker Diet" is equivocating on the value of "in." What matters is not calories ingested, it's bioavailable calories ingested; see Gary Taubes' _Good Calories, Bad Calories_ for details.

> clothes are made for normal, maybe slender and fit people

Ha! How wrong you are! I am what I consider should be a normal, fit size but all the competitively priced stuff is made for fatties. I am forced to go pay more for proper fitting clothing.

Here's a somewhat easier approach that worked for me: marry an Italian woman and carefully follow all her advice about buying clothes.

Chicken and egg. The point of looking good is often to get the Italian woman to notice you in the first place.

Having said that, the last time I bought suits I brought my Italian mother-in-law to help me pick them out, so I guess I basically followed your advice.

I've read married women sabotage their husbands on this front.

As with doctors: Always get a second opinion.

You can also post pictures of yourself in different outfits on hot-or-not, for a rough guide.

Following almost any woman's advice is a step ahead for techies.

Easier? Depends on who you marry, I suppose.

^Italian^French

>Tshirts. Fitted solid color shirt with jeans that fit and shoes that impress = coffee shop, homework at the library, class. Easy as pie, and if you get the fit right and are in decent shape you look good.

This is such a good piece of advice. One day when I decided about 5 years ago to be fashionable, I bought a bunch of solid dark colored tshirts, some shortsleeve and some longsleeve.

I wear them with jeans, and make sure to wash them carefully so neither my shirts nor jeans get faded or raggedy looking.

Well, I had numerous girls tell me after a while that they thought I dressed nice. WTF? Tshirt and jeans? I seriously would be wearing a black 8 dollar target tshirt, some trendy levis (nothing too $$$) and shoes and that counts as fashionable? Why didn't someone tell me sooner?

I guess no wrinkles and something that fits nice goes a long way in terms of what girls wear.

Jeans. Don't get designer jeans. Don't get them torn. Don't get them baggy. Regular or slim fit only. Get them in colors ranging from dark blue to blue/gray. Do not get light blue.

If the jeans that suit you are designer jeans or more expensive than you would typically pay, do get them. Not only do you benefit from the fit, the girls recognise the brands.

I judge the fit of the jeans that I buy by putting my keys/wallet/phone in my pockets when trying them on to make sure that the jeans fits properly in the typical conditions that I'll be wearing them. Also note that your jeans will stretch slightly as you wear them, but that is brand/material dependent.

Do not get jeans that are too long. They should never, never touch the ground and they should cover 1/4 to 1/2 of your shoe laces when you are standing.

To me it's more important that your socks (anklets only with low-cut shoes) or ankles can't be seen when sitting down than worrying about if they touch the ground. I'm short and have short legs, so I counter the length of my jeans by wearing slightly bulkier shoes. I make sure that I wear my favorite casual shoes (at the time) to double check this.

How much of your shoe they cover is based on the cut at the bottom as well as the length. You should be able to at least see some shoelaces, and that's about it.

Casual Shoes. Women notice shoes. Seriously. It's really interesting how much they look at your shoes. You can have everything else right, but if your shoes are big blocky white gym shoes, you have failed.... The good news is that you can crowd source style selection by looking at Zappos's most popular (http://bit.ly/bep8vN).

The golden rule of casual shoes is don't buy black. Black shoes are for suits. I personally prefer white or bright red as it breaks up the dark jeans and t-shirts that I usually wear.

Crowd-sourcing your shoe selection is interesting, but you'll notice that Zappos most popular shoes were all low-cut retro shoes by Asics, Converse and Vans. If you find as nice/nicer shoes that didn't appear on that page when you're out and about shopping, get those before the crowd-sourced ones. Why? If the girls are paying attention to your shoes, they'll also be paying attention as to whether you are wearing something similar to the others or whether your shoes are very nice and something they haven't seen at all.

Boots.

I like my Cherry Red Doc Martens, but red is my favourite colour for shoes so I'm heavily biased with that choice.

Perhaps it's because I'm not a twitter hipster, but what's with all the bitly links? They really detract from an otherwise great post.

I personally really prefer to know where I'm going before I click a link. Save bitly for posts that restrict your character count please

Sorry about that. :-/ The long links were making it really difficult to compose my post. I too get annoyed at URL shorteners, but I thought the annoyance would be offset by the convenience of having the short links inline (as opposed to placing the long links at the bottom via footnotes). In retrospect I wish I could edit my original post and just put the long links inline.

Use this Greasemonkey.

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/46822

Anyone who downvoted me care to explain why? I don't twitter (which appears to be the primary audience of bit.ly users) and my experience with url shorteners starts and ends with tinyurl (and all the abuses I encountered with that service).

What, specifically, was unworthy about my question and rational?

I downvoted you because... ugh, whining about something I don't care about. I don't care so why do you? It's not even important, it's not even the sort of thing there can be a definitive answer to, it's just preference on both sides so there wont be a resolution.

Besides, you're wrong ;), the shortened links are no real hindrance because you can tell by the context that they'll only go to a shop or a picture, there's no chance here that they'll be surprise shock sites, PDFs, etc, and unlikely they'll even be videos.

So stop cluttering up with your bikeshed colour whinging and post something about clothing fashion. Even if it's a short personal anecdote with which I can't identify and don't care about, that's still a better quality comment.

Compare what you wrote with something like this response: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1136775

Just add a plus to the end of the URL.

Oddly, copy/pasting the link into the address bar and manually adding a plus to the end of the URL seems to take far more effort then just clicking on the link. If only there were a usability trick to actually see the link directly in the post somehow...

I use Long URL Please (http://www.longurlplease.com/), and most of the time don't even realize something was posted as a bit.ly or some other shortened URL until I look carefully. It replaces shortened URLs from most services with the actual URLs that they lead to.

Thanks for the heads up about this, just 'installed' the bookmarklet. Seems to work well.

Personally, I prefer the shorter links. Since HN makes you put the full link text, it ends up really cluttering up comments.

Also, I'm surprised by your passive-aggressiveness. I almost made a comment about how you must be new here, but you've been here longer than me!

I read your post and felt I had accidentally picked up a copy of this book: http://imgur.com/FathR.jpg

Your advice is "Do what I do, which is ... what everyone else does".

"""Do not accept anything less than exactly what you want. Settling for clothing is the worst thing you can do. The legs on the pants you just bought half an inch too long? Return them. The collar of the shirt a little too tight? Return it. There are billions of styles and billions of fits out there. Taking a shortcut to save some time is not the road to success. You have to keep searching until you find a fit and a brand that you really, really like."""

Why? What a load of effort for what sounds like a little return.

And doesn't that exhortion to search and search and search and not accept anything I don't really really like conflict with your "wear aviators and a woolen pea coat" suggestion?

Aviators = 1970s photos of men with large stomachs and moustaches. I don't "really really like them". Should I buy some and be 'done' or reject them and go back to a billions and billions search space?

Incidentally, http://hel-looks.com/ is a kind of photoblog of people from Helsinki dressed in unusual styles. It's one of those sites I go back to and have a look through occasionally when bored - note how nobody on there is wearing jeans and a plain t-shirt, and they're all still alive.

This guy isn't wearing a plain colored shirt and zappo's most popular shoes either. ;) http://imgur.com/r10Rr.jpg

I've noticed this phenomenon as well, but it's worth expanding on. Women who are seeking status/money (most of them) look at your shoes. Women who are seeking a companion will overlook it.

Fancy shoes are useful if you want to find a woman to sleep with. Sneakers are useful for filtering out women unsuitable for a real relationship.

To a certain extent. You shouldn't overdress, because you'll look stupid to either gender. But you shouldn't sandbag yourself, either.

If you're wearing nice, dressy or semi-dressy clothes, a pair of casual shoes will look silly. And if you're wearing nice, casual clothes but cheap sneakers, that will look almost as silly. You're doing yourself a disservice if you wear a fitted RL polo, nice fitted raw jeans, and whatever pair of Adidas was on sale. You'll be making a fashion statement, and that statement will be "one of these things is not like the others".

Plus, a "real" leather shoe, like the OP talks about, can last one or multiple decades, if they are resolable and of good quality. In certain styles, you actually save money by buying more expensive shoes.

RE: Express 1MX shirts. I buy a fair bit of clothes at Express but I've never been fond of these shirts. They seem to wrinkle excessively and some feel a bit cheap (they're made of varying materials, though. I have one that's fine. YMMV.) I prefer wrinkle resistant stuff, so one thing I do is lightly pinch the material while at the store to see how prone an item is to wrinkling.

You can probably find equivalent (or better) dress shirts more cheaply if you can find brands like Kenneth Cole discounted at big stores like Macy's. This happens fairly regularly. Note that "modern fit" shirts will fit more tightly around the waist/stomach. You should try it on, even if it means unpacking the damn thing and pulling out all of the pins.

A simple and versatile item is a black (modern fit) dress shirt. Sharp and serious with slacks, or you can wear it untucked with jeans for a casual look.

I've had similar experiences with the 1MX shirts. They do seem to vary; I had one shirt that was great, and I had another that would get gnarly wrinkles just from having a laptop bag slung over my shoulder for a few moments.

I also found that they really don't hold up well in the laundry, and I wash in cold water using a washer with no agitator. They fade very easily, and seams fall apart pretty quickly. For the price Express charges (more often than not they seem to be on sale for $19.50), it didn't seem economical to dry-clean them, so I've just given up on them.

I've found the Banana Republic "no iron" (don't believe that; they still need ironing) shirts, as well as some of their fitted shirts, to be a decent alternative to the 1MX that holds up better.

Eddie Bauer makes a great wrinkle-free oxford. No ironing is a beautiful thing.

Thanks for filling out the casual side of the article. I like the Express example, I believe because it is pocketless and a solid color. It seems at the root of all this advice is the idea that clothes should fit so there are no folds, bends, or creases when standing straight, clothes should follow the shape of the body as much as possible, and pants at the natural waist.

The 1MX shirt is nice, and I've been convinced $40 is an acceptable price for a single shirt, and want two, but isn't this a bit much? Where is the room for the industrial Dickies and wallmart boots? The dickies are only baggy if they're purchased oversized, but they look okay with bulky footware if fit properly. And track jackets should be equivalent to hoodies.

A gentleman carries a handkerchief in his front breast pocket

Looks like he still has some things to learn

Thanks for your write-up.

Could you please use the long URLs in your posts the next time? Going through the notion of `tinying' your URLs costs you time (probably), and maket it harder for us to see where links go. HN does a good job of putting ellipses into long URLs.

> Do not accept anything less than exactly what you want.

I agree.

> Settling for clothing is the worst thing you can do. The legs on the pants you just bought half an inch too long? Return them.

I disagree. In this case you can just go to the tailor and let them shorten the pants. (I do this regularly because I am too short to fit most regular pants, but I am also to cheap to get bespoke clothing (yet).) Shortening should not cost more than around 10 Euro. Other alterations are also possible.

True bespoke clothes are quite expensive, but you can get made-to-measure clothing for only a small premium over off-the-shelf. (And once you factor in alterations, perhaps not any more expensive).

Wait, what's the difference between "bespoke" and "made-to-measure?" For me they're synonymous.

Bespoke = designed for you, made-to-measure = existing design made to fit you.

This is a great place to start. http://putthison.com/ is a great place to keep going back to.

Fashion hacking is just generally something good to do. It'll make all impressions of you automatically more of everything positive.

At least so long as you don't brag about it. Fashion is about emphasizing the traits you already have by putting them against a pleasing background.

I'll second the 1MX Express shirts - they always look really sharp and half the time there's some 2 for 1 deal on them anyway.

As far as polos, make sure to buy polos that are actually "polo" material and not some weird synthetic fiber since they look weird. The GAP actually has some decent styles without obnoxiously large logos.

The one point I'll disagree on is designer jeans. I'm not saying you have to shell out $500 for some crazy Japanese designer jeans but jeans in the $120-200 range consistently fit me better and generally feel nicer than the stuff you'll find at Walmart.

If you don't have a significant other or girl to go shopping with (or even if you do and she's lacking in the style department), hit up a Bloomingdales and find someone to help you out. In my experience, their sales people have always been knowledgeable and helped me find stuff that looks and fits great.

Don't forget to buy a decent looking belt.

Wow...that is the best fashion advice I've ever seen on a tech site ;)

Definitely second the 1MX shirts from Express. I prefer the fitted or "modern fit" as I'm fairly slim. These shirts look great for work or going out after work to a nicer bar/restaurant.

Also seconding the JCrew hoodies. I have a blue one that is about 2 years old and looks great. VERY flexible for making outfits, especially here in Chicago where it can be chilly during the spring/fall.

" Express's 1MX shirts are a solid choice (http://bit.ly/cXBvxS) and very popular for this type of role."

Totally agreed. I dress semi-professional for work, and soon in decided that my entire work wardrobe would consist of Express 1MX shirts (non-fitted, non-bright colors) and black, standard fit, flat front Dockers.

Let's focus in on the three major geek failures:

Jeans: Don't wear them constantly. Get decent proper fitting wool pants; plain blue, black, or brown. You instantly look five times better. Also, they're more comfortable.

Shorts: almost never. You're not 9, or trailer trash. Get summer-weight wool/cotton pants and they're about as cool as shorts. Adult men look ridiculous in shorts and it's somewhat rare to see it in most places outside of America.

Synthetics: never. Clothing is made of wool and cotton.

Tailored dress shirts sounds excessive to me. Just favor those marked trim-fit if you're thin, and be careful about the styling; cheaper ones often have outdated over-sized collars.

Shorts: almost never. You're not 9, or trailer trash.

cough I suggest one pays attention to local cultural norms before following sweeping advice on the Internet. I work in a building full of men in shorts and sandals. None of them are 9 or trailer trash - most of them are 40 year old PhDs. They are fine. Shorts are particularly popular with people who grew up in colder climates. Provided they are a good length (say 10 inch inseam) and casual rather than sporting, there is nothing wrong with them.

Oh and I guess somebody had better throw me out of the sisterhood because I don't give a damn what shoes anybody wears. My only request is if you wear an open toe shoe, like a sandal, please practice basic hygiene and nail care.

[PS. I am talking about normal day dress. I am aware PG has opinions on what you should wear while pitching your startup; if you are pitching your startup to PG, by all means wear what PG likes. If he likes clown suits, wear a clown suit. Geddit?]

> I work in a building full of men in shorts and sandals.

You work in a building full of men who look ridiculous. They and their peers may not care, but many do. And what's the point of needlessly alienating others?

I think fashion and the disdain programmers have for it play a role in creating the popular misconception among non-programmers that skilled software people should be very cheap. Skilled professionals dress like skilled professionals. Look at doctors and lawyers. Deal with it or deal with the consequences.

You work in a building full of men who look ridiculous.

Dude, you do realise that "fashion" is just a consensual hallucination, right? I work in Hawaii. Nobody looks ridiculous wearing shorts, they just look... normal. Go back and read what I said about local cultural norms.

When I worked in Hawaii, it was a wild day indeed when we changed out of the usual uniform of gym shorts, t-shirt (or no shirt), and flip-flops (only when outdoors, barefoot inside).

> a consensual hallucination

Gee, kind of like money. So let's all ignore money.

Even in hawaii, haolie white dudes of north american extraction look ridiculous in shorts. I'll cut them slack if they're speaking hawaiian and support secession.

> I work in Hawaii.

So did these guys: http://pappastenant.com/investigation/Hawaii50.jpg

I dare you to mentally substitute shorts on them and not laugh.

Gee, kind of like money. So let's all ignore money.

Uh no. Money is nothing like fashion. If you put in 10 grand in your savings account, you have money in the bank, no matter what anybody thinks you have. On the other hand, if my nice brown coat from last year is now "unfashionable" because the editor of Vogue said that brown is out and pink is in, that only has power on people who believe it.

Fashion is just a social construct. Like other social constructs it has its uses (I certainly don't advise turning up at a job interview in the Lapland national dress, or a bikini), but let's not give it more importance that it is due. Especially here.

Doctors stereotypically wear sandals and socks, which is supposed to be the greatest mistake ever. Sure doesn't stop them from costing thousands of dollars.

Doctors have to be on their feet for a large percentage of very long shifts, so they can be forgiven. Omitting socks--and/or shoes--is of course not an option.

Don't underestimate jeans because of the rash of ill-fitting jeans, usually pre-faded, often with ugly faux "distressing".

Good wool pants are great, but good jeans also look great, with the advantage that the more you wear them the greater they look.

"""Get decent proper fitting wool pants; plain blue, black, or brown. You instantly look five times better."""

Would you link to some pictures of what you mean, please? (Preferably of a person wearing them who looks like you are picturing, rather than a shop link). My association from your description is "office work trousers".

Any picture of a dude wearing pants that aren't jeans is likely to be wool pants, if he's not wearing chintzy cotton khakis. Consider almost any picture dated pre-1970.

I defy you to live in Williamsburg, VA during the summer and not wear shorts. In any professional or even "out" setting like a party or the bar, no. But all other casual times, certainly.

I bet you've never worn summer weight fabric pants. They are actually cooler than shorts of conventional fabric. You can go with seersucker or linen if you're adventurous.

I am almost positive that shorts were not common attire in the south 50 years ago.

My favorite line came in the comments: "business casual is a trick foisted on Gen X & Y by the baby boomers to make us look like dolts and keep us from taking over their corner offices! Just say no!"

Keep it casual. Start your own business. Problem solved.

This is all good if you intend to either impress people you're sure you want to impress or you're sure you actually to want to dress like this even if you were the only person on this planet.

Not really objecting to good-looking clothes selected with class but do it for the right reasons.

Anyone want to dare venture an opinion why women place such stock in judging men by their shoes?

As a guy, I enjoy dressing nicely when I can except it irks me people care so much about (men's) shoes. I don't get why they matter so much - they're on our feet near the floor out of sight mostly and serve an impt functional purpose to cushion and protect the foot.

And it angers me our society makes it fashionable for women to hurt themselves with really painfully uncomfortable shoes.

It has partly to do with that most men buy terrible shoes. Particularly dress shoes, but they also tend to buy ugly sneakers.

Shoes are actually the easiest thing to understand, to the point many newbies on StyleForum start out by expanding their shoe wardrobe. It's hard to tell an expensive suit from a cheap one, but easy to tell a good shoe from a bad one, if only men would spend any time at all thinking about it.

A pair of Allen Edmonds dress shoes is $325 or so. Seems like a lot, but 1) they look ten times better and 2) they last ten times longer. In an office environment where the "best-dressed" men wear hideous $200 KC glue-jobs that fall apart after a few years, you can one-up them while saving money. Pretty neat. Most dress shoes have hard leather soles, but this isn't a big deal unless you walk several miles in them every day.

I can't explain why women love foot-destroying heels. It makes no sense to me.

It has partly to do with that most men buy terrible shoes.

That's half the story. The other half is just that women like shoes the way geeks like digital toys, so they always look at other women's shoes, and this carries over to looking at men's shoes as well. Because of this interest, women will always look at your shoes; you won't get away with an ugly or inappropriate pair of shoes. Men tend to underestimate the importance of shoes because they're out of sight, out of mind. Who cares what's way down there? So they don't pay attention and end up walking around with really god-awful or contextually inappropriate shoes which, to a woman's eye, jump right out in an unpleasant way.

Most dress shoes have hard leather soles, but this isn't a big deal unless you walk several miles in them every day.

Funny you mention that. A friend of mine works at the State Department, and walks to the Metro every day. In total, he walks about 3 miles a day. The State Department is suit-and-tie, every day. He goes through suit pants and dress shoes like I go through gym clothes.

Then he is the best candidate for resoleable leather shoes. Either that, or a pair of walking shoes to change into and out of.

Probably because shoes mean a lot to women and they've become a status symbol.

As for why society has made women wear painfully uncomfortable shoes (i.e. high heels), that's easier to explain. It makes them taller while also giving the appearance of longer legs and a firmer butt, which men find desirable.

I think the real explanation goes back to the Restoration. Charles II and his court wore 17th Century cavalry boots, which were high-heeled as a means of ensuring that the foot stayed in the stirrup, like the modern cowboy boot; this style carried over to women sometime in the late 18th or early 19th century (women's shoes for most of the 17th and 18th centuries were delicate rather than high-heeled; there's an anecdote, I think in Fernand Braudel's _Structures of Everyday Life_, of a lady complaining to her tailor that her shoes had disintegrated; the tailor examined them and replied that of course they did, she had walked in them); and once high heels were established as a female fashion, a sort of sartorial folk etymology came along to explain their popularity.

This is why I don't have much respect for contemporary fashion; the extent to which it's dominated by accidents of English history is even greater than that admitted in the article.

I guess shoes are easy to judge for women.

> And it angers me our society makes it fashionable for women to hurt themselves with really painfully uncomfortable shoes.

Me too. I am just glad, that `nice' shoes for man are comfortable, too. At least after you have walked in them for a few days (or weeks) and the leather has become soft.

>White socks are for sports. Only.

White socks are a lot more versatile than that, unless the scope of "sports" is so broad as to include hikes, walking in the park or even having a barbecue. Wearing dress socks with sneakers is just odd.

The Sartorialist is great:

http://www.thesartorialist.blogspot.com/

Neat photos...

...but I think this demonstrates my main problem about fashion: only the good looking can do this.

Not a single fat person in these pictures. I'm not saying that they must out of some sense of equality or some kind of obligation. Clothes are not made for fat people probably because they just don't look good in anything. I should just lose weight if I want to look fashionable.

I speak from personal experience. I'm quite overweight -- like most americans -- and nothing I wore had any affect on how well I looked. So i just gave up on fashion years ago.

Churchill was overweight and he wasn't too bad of a dresser. If you want to see more realistic examples than on the sartoralist then checkout the styleforums thread "what are you wearing today", mentioned elsewhere. Suits work best on someone who is around 5'9". I am quite tall, which means I can look a bit goofy if I wear the wrong things, but just like with being overweight, it is possible to put together a combination that looks good.

Suits work best on someone who is around 5'9"

Nonsense. Tall guys look great in suits. I'm 5'7" and I always feel a bit like Tatoo from Fantasy Island (The Plane! The Plane!) when I put on a suit.

Whether a suit looks good for your height just depends on the proportions of the suit compared to your body. A short guy can wear a suit just as well as a tall guy (or vice versa), if he has the right length jacket. This is because the jacket divides the body into two visual sections, the primary effect of which is to either visually shorten or lengthen the legs. Shorter guys look stubby if their jacket is too long and cuts through their thighs.

Hint: many clothes come in [S]hort, [R]egular, and [T]all length variations. It's good to figure out which one you are and buy the appropriately proportioned one, or err on the side of too long and have a tailor crop it for you.

Modern United States clothing is a thin man's, or woman's, game, but this hasn't always been the case; it doesn't have to be the case that the fat are unfashionable. European clothing as late as the 18th century, and especially in the 15th-16th centuries, was designed for a heavier average weight than the current one (and this is without beginning to discuss, for example, traditional Chinese clothing).

I don't know if I'm really crazy enough to recommend that you try dressing like Henry VIII or Benjamin Franklin; but keep in mind that it's hypothetically possible, at least.

(Then again, how much _could_ anyone do to you if you went out to dinner or got on a subway dressed in the best fashions of 250 years ago (other than the Scots Highland style of dress which requires a dagger tucked into the left stocking)? I could see certain sorts of people recommending it as a character- or determination-building exercise...)

More seriously, though, I agree with the idea that Winston Churchill -- or G.K. Chesterton, legendarily overweight but positively dapper -- might be a good starting point.

Dress 250 years old and you'll probably look like a tool unless you take up EVERY attribute that was fashionable in that period. Are you going to wear a periwig? Sneakers don't go well with a tricorn hat.

For example, there's a young CS student at my school who wears a long brown leather coat and a pirate-ish hat. The two problems are: Who over the age of 8 dresses up like a pirate? and he's bald-faced, sneaker-wearing, and has a t-shirt under the coat.

Most people use a fake plastic knife to get around Scottish restrictions on carrying blades.

A bigger concern is that most sporrans are made out of sealskin, which is effectively impossible to take into the US. The one time I looked at taking my kilt with me to the US I decided it would be much easier to buy an all-leather sporran, even though they don't look as nice.

Here, at least, a full dress kilt is acceptable as 'black tie' in place of a tux.

While it's true most Sartorialist "models" aren't overweight (and that's simply a result of the author's filtering), they aren't especially good looking either. They're just random people who happen to have very good fashion sense. That's the whole point of the blog after all.

It varies.

Compare this young guy: http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/12010TanLeather3822Web...

with this older man: http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/11810DGscarf3456Web.jp...

The second man has serious style, and his outfit could be tailored to a heavier man. However, if you're not a young, handsome guy who pays so much attention to your hairstyle that people will notice it before your epic static cling, you can't get away with the first man's look.

I don't think the first guy gets away with the first guy's look, it looks terrible. The trousers are a ghastly colour, texture and shape, the jumper is a different yet still unpleasant colour and a poor fit, the jacket is a nice jacket but a terrible fit, the socks are ugly and the boots don't go with the rest of it. That he is pictured in a sartorial blog is everything that makes me think fashionistas are making it up as they go along while laughing to themselves and pocketing stacks of cash into the bargain.

It doesn't go together, it doesn't fit, it doesn't look expensive and showy, it's not crowing designer labels, it's not bold and contrasty and awesome, the only redeeming feature it has is that he's obviously put effort into making himself look so unusual. And that's fine, he wins points simply for doing that instead of wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

But he doesn't look fashionable. Does he?

All he really needs is a can of PBR and a terrible "ironic" mustache and he could be on LATFH.com

Not at all. But he'll get a pass for being good-looking.

Don't buy anything that says anything on it. Perhaps a small Lacoste badge logo or something but no messages. Don't wear pink and yellow. When in doubt, copy everything from Tom Ford's A Single Man movie. And it's more important to look fit then wear the right fit, although both are important to look good.

> When in doubt, copy everything from Tom Ford's A Single Man movie.

Great; now I can look forward to male hackers wearing bright white angora sweaters everywhere.

Don't copy the lost teenager guy (obviously).

Are you serious? Yellow was an in color last year.

"In" colours don't apply to anyone except fashion industry people.

Anyone who enjoys this will enjoy "Put This On," a collaboration between "the Sound of Young America guy" and "the You Look Nice Today guy." It's a video series (season 1 is about to launch, & there's already a pilot available) and tumblr.

http://putthison.com/

I don't know how accurate these are for people who dress this way, but I would guess that very few people on this site do dress this way. The style he's describing is as formal as that of a New York City investment banker when he's at his office (http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-war...).

The styliest guy in the room is also the simplest. If you do not know what to buy, keep it simple: get 1 pair or Rock and Republick (they always fit), and 1 7 for all mankind, get 2 white shirts and 1 black one from J crew. Pack up on Hanes t-shirts. Add a simple stainless silver watch, you are done. Do not worry about the shoes, just keep them clean, and no square toes.

3 Suits?!

That's like asking me to own three cars.

I guess that's very country-specific. In my country (Uruguay), as a professional, I'm EXPECTED to wear a suit, and I own far more than 3 (it helps that they're about U$ 100 each as opposed to whatever price they are in the US).

He says that you eventually want to own three suits. Once you start wearing suits for different occasions, it's pretty obvious, at least IMHO.

A black suit is good for formal use. Church-business, meetings with executives etc. You're conveying the message that you're dead-serious. A charcoal suit works well, also, as mentioned in another comment.

A lighter suit, maybe grey with a very light pattern, no color, goes well for anything non-dead-serious. The message is that you respect and take whomever you're with seriously. Lower level meetings, fancy restaurants, conferences. A black suit don't go well here, because the situation just isn't dead serious.

The third suit is for when you're used to wearing suits and like it (if you don't like it, don't go there) - something more playful, something like a color pin-stripe is popular. Generally not for business-use, but for going out. If you show up at a post-conference cocktail reception in a suit like that it says "let's enjoy ourselves" and shows another side of you.

Upvoted for your mention of dressing to signal your respect for others. It seems many geeks rarely think of this. To many geeks I have known, their down-dressing is about their comfort and desire to buck mainstream culture. That's fine, but it would be nice if they realized that dressing nice at work or out with friends can also mean you think those around you were worth some effort. After all, you don't have to look at yourself all day, but everybody else does.

I respect you enough to think you are a person who can find more useful signals of respect than the ability to memorise and abide by arbitrary rules laid out by the unseen gods of menswear. ;)

Then you are a better person than I. If someone speaks too familiarly, acts too familiarly, or dresses too familiarly in a serious or business setting, I will not be thinking that he respects me enough to think that I am a person who can find more useful signals of respect than the ability to memorise and abide by arbitrary rules laid out of the unseen gods of grammar, social conventions, or menswear. I will be thinking that he has no respect.

It's not just memorizing. That's the problem. If it was memorizing, my iPhone could memorize it for me. You have to think about fashion. And I don't want to. And I don't want other people to invade my mind and dictate part of its contents.

If I dress up for you, I'm announcing that I believe you can be manipulated by a simple costume change. I'm not above using that tactic but it certainly isn't out of respect.

Don't wear a black suit for formal use.

1) you don't want to look dead-serious. Most people like business interactions to be relaxed.

2) most formal matters are conducted in the daytime. Daytime environments--outdoors, fluorescently lit offices, places with the windows open--will be brightly lit and comparatively low contrast. In these environments, black sticks out a mile away. There's a reason black tie is only considered appropriate during the evening, when street lights are on and interiors tend to use more relaxed lighting.

3) there is a rule in America that black suits are only appropriate for very somber occasions. Not everyone knows this rule, but some do.

4) cheap black fabric stands out a mile away. Cheap fabric of any color, not so much.

Get a dark ("charcoal") gray suit instead of a black one. Charcoal gray is the world's most boring color, making it perfect for interviews, presentations, important business, etc.

I bought a nice, black suit for formal use. I was taking the advice of a good friend of mine who I brought along to help me. I took her advice because she is a woman ten years older than me with a background in textile engineering. Her reason for why I should pick black was "You look better in it."

What's wrong with 3 cars? 1 for daily use, 1 to go out on a date and one for business!

What's wrong with 3 houses? 1 to live in, 1 for impressing and 1 for working.

Of course, you outsource the impressing one to whichever social building is appropriate for the event and outsource the working one to your office, but still.

Maybe you could have a daily driver, and either hire a van as needed, and have a weekend car or hire one as needed, or own or hire both or indeed all three.

New startup - make regular car hiring better?

I'd like a site like crowdspring, except I upload pictures of my clothes and people tell me what tie/shirt/pants/suit go with each other.

Though not quite what you're looking for, StyleForum (mentioned in another comment) has a "What are you Wearing Right Now" thread in the Men's Clothing section... you can actually try out different combos and receive (mostly) constructive feedback.

I believe that hn's vaksel runs a site close to that - http://styleguidance.com/

Although it does seem geared slightly more at women than men, I think it gets pretty close to what you're looking for. Perhaps vaksel can work with you to round out the rough spots.

Today is the day I realized Hacker News has jumped the shark. Plus, I realized just how many more readers it has that are either women or are homosexual men. :)

Seriously, this whole thread reads like Cosmo magazine. (Oh, do dish! You go girl, tell it! I only wear Gabana. Yellow goes bad with red. Hoodies are to die for. Anyone that matches a Denillo with a Gucci something-or-rather is a fashion disaster! I'm going to tell all you people how to dress because I have mastered it -- did I mention I'm only 20? OMGBBQ!!!)

I disagree.

I think this is a perfect topic for HN; Dressing well is important in improving self confidence, and it is vital in making good first impressions (useful for VC funding ;).

If this doesn't make sense to you, think of how you perceive a website on your first visit. Would you use a service with a design that had been slapped together in a few hours? It's the same with people. Being sloppily dressed conveys an image of laziness and carelessness.

One thing I enjoy on HN is discussions which may not be related to programming or start-ups. It's interesting to hear how hackers approach problems in other areas of their life. That being said, I'll gladly listen to fashion advice from those who have the experience to offer it, even if they are women or homosexual men.

Wearing a big black t-shirt from ThinkGeek 2 sizes too big, baggy shorts, white socks pulled up, sneakers, and your hair messy... it's like using the <blink> tag with cyan text on a red background and little animated gifs.

Anyone want to dare venture an opinion why women place such stock in judging men by their shoes?

And it angers me our society makes it fashionable for women to hurt themselves with really painfully uncomfortable shoes.

it angers me our society makes it fashionable for women to hurt themselves with really painfully uncomfortable shoes.

Me too. Unfortunately, I also tend to like how women look in high heels.

I have a lot of cognitive dissonance about fashion in general. It disgusts me that people buy new clothes even though they have old ones that are still perfectly functional, but despite this disgust, I am sometimes one of those people. When I'm dressed well (which includes, among other things, being not too far out of date), I feel better about myself, but then I feel stupid for letting myself be manipulated for profit by the fashion industry.

I know a couple of women who have such a strong aesthetic sense that they can look good without being trendy. I have a lot of respect for that.

High heels aren't about making the feet look better....

That does it. This weekend I am definitely buying the kangaroo skin Vibram Five Fingers!

There were some comments on the blog asking about tucking in your shirt without a belt. I believe it's okay if you do not have belt loops. My brother has an old suit from the 80s which has no belt loops and as long as the shirt is tapered it looks good.

Of course you have to walk like you intended to wear a suit from the 80s.

IMO (and this seems to be supported by modern American culture), if a man isn't wearing suspenders he should be wearing a belt.

What about a cane? Can I have a cane as my affectation? I was just outside and it is gorgeous cane weather.

You'll look like a tool with a cane unless you: a) genuinely have a limp, b) are wearing some sort of impeccable reproduction of Victorian men's wear (and not some silly steampunk crap), or c) are over 50.

Watch Mad Men and copy Don Draper?

> 4. You can unbutton the top button always (provided you’re not wearing a tie), the second button usually, the third button only on disco night at the Rollerama.

The version I've heard is that you need to see the Mediterranean to unbutton the third button.

> Dress Suits

As soon as they make suits incorporating Polartec and Goretex I'll think about wearing suits. Until then I prefer my comfort over pretty much anything. I make exception only for funerals and weddings.

For those of you in NYC - take a peak at mysuitny.com. Design your suit, pick the fabric, then go into the store to get measured. Suit arrives later in the mail.

It's where I'm going for my next suit, at least..

I thought I'd try that with http://www.leftfootcompany.com/ a while ago - you go to a store and get your feet scanned and then order online and they machine make shoes to fit your feet.

They emailed me to say my feet are too large/small/different/whatever and their process cannot make shoes to fit me. :/

Yeah, I may get around to considering some of these things someday if I make any money. Broke-ass entrepreneurs rolling their own out of pure cash need not apply. Most clothes I have are left over from high school or first year of college and suit just fine.

Personally, I would skip the loafers. IMO, grown men tie their shoes. Instead, have a pair of wing-tips and a pair of unadorned or cap-toe oxfords.

Soon on Hacker News:

How to eat with a knife and fork!

How to do "number twos"!

How to brush your teeth!

Sheesh

Don't know about the last two, but some people would definitely benefit from learning table manners and fork etiquette.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette

This is "Fashion tips, as long as by fashion you mean what 19th-century British aristocracy wore".

If you asked a woman to wear an uncomfortable and restrictive item of clothing designed in the 1800s you would be a crazy sexist. But apparently men are supposed to do just that.

Women wear uncomfortable and restrictive items of clothing all the time.

For instance, high heels.

And the expensive stuff for men is usually quite comfortable. (Though you have to put down a lot of money on a suit to get as comfortable as you get with even very cheap T-shirts.)

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