Comment by mangeletti | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mangeletti | Hacker News Reader

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> Why? Because they don't want to look poor or be thought of as such.

This is not necessarily correct.

A lot of people still regard iPhones and other high-end smartphones as being something of a luxury. They are a luxury when you compare them to what we need for survival (food, water, shelter), but there is something to be said about a small rectangular device that, once purchased, can provide nearly free:

1. entertainment

2. education (Wikipedia, etc.)

3. news

4. photography

5. social connection

6. documentation of events (note taking, video, etc.)

7. voice recording

8. calculator

9. more complex tools (graphing calculator, 12C, etc.)

10. flash light

11. access to e-commerce (save money on things you need)

12. e-readers (text books that might otherwise be cost-prohibitive)

The list goes on, but, for all of its negatives, the value of a high-quality smartphone like an iPhone can't be over-stated.

In fact, when you consider all the things it replaces, including entertainment, poor people almost cannot afford to not have a smartphone.

Whether the additional value of an iPhone or other high-end device (Galaxy, etc.), compared to a low-end smartphone, pays for the increase in cost, is definitely debatable.

Smartphone != iphone

I spent $250 on mine and it is does everything meaningful that an iphone does. Iphone is definitely a luxury even among smartphones.

Correct. But look at who has a corner on the advertising. iPhones are still seen as another class above by many, if not most, people.

Edit: Forgot to say, that by comparison, Android/Windows/whatever smartphones are relatively unknown.

> Forgot to say, that by comparison, Android/Windows/whatever smartphones are relatively unknown.

Huh? Android has nearly twice the market share of iOS: https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share...

> iPhones are still seen as another class above by many, if not most, people.

This is severely anecdotal. But here's an anecdote from me to balance things out: where I come (and indeed within the industry I work in) most people look down on iPhones because they see them as uninteresting toy devices or devices for old people. Nobody I know would be 'impressed' by an iPhone. Something like a OnePlus One, Xiaomi Mi5 or even a Blackberry Z30 would have a lot more cool/novelty factor.

iPhones got boring a long time ago. Much like the rest of Apple, it pains me to say.

Care to share where you're from and what industry?

Sorry, should have mentioned it in my previous comment. I'm from in Ireland and work in financial IT as a software engineer.

Two points:

1 - I can't tell you the number of times I've asked if the person has an Android phone, only to be told: "No, I have a Samsung Galaxy..."

2 - I agree, severely anecdotal. :) I think you'll find that most on the street have never heard of the OnePlus One, and that same group see the iPhone as a luxury item.

What is this... World Generalization Day? :)

Not to mention you can get cheaper iPhones. You can buy them used or through your cell plan.

Still expensive, but again there is a lot of benefits to having one.

When you walk into a phone store you're going to get upsold on the high-end phones, broken into small monthly payments.

Also there are still many value phones being sold that are pieces of crap. A poor person may be better off spending $20/mn on the latest iPhone that "just works" than getting a budget phone for $10/mn that crashes from not enough memory, has a terrible touchscreen and will be unusable in 1 year.

There are quality low-end smartphones, but you must research which they are, and the naming of them can be very similar to crappy phones. Going in and saying you want an iPhone is a more sure thing than guessing which variant of the value Galaxy line isn't crap, or which unknown brand name has the best features.

Often the sales people are just as clueless as the person buying, and they're motivated to sell whatever makes them a commission.

I doubt it's an upsell conspiracy, because the iPhone isn't the only high-end phone that can be upsold.

More likely that the iPhone is viewed as an image luxury good. Same with ridiculously expensive flat screen TVs.

A lot of flagships do have the luxury vibe. That doesn't change the fact that most are bought with monthly installment plans, which makes the cost seem reasonable. Maybe poor people are getting them to not look poor or because their kid's peer group has them, but likely the user experience and usefulness of the phones is going to be better on a flagship. The technology hardware market is rife with products that seem to target the technically ill informed. Apple is known to "just work", that has been their schtick forever, even if it's not entirely true. It's similar to helping a grandparent buy a computer. Maybe those saying "you can do X on a cheaper smartphone", should go stand outside these stores and offer their consultancy services for free.

the delta between your $250 smartphone and a new $400 iPhoneSE is pretty small when you consider the total cost and include the costs to provide the phone with data access - cellular plan + home internet plan.

Is $150 the difference between luxury and not luxury for something that is used 4+ hours a day for years?

That $150 extra gets me precisely nothing that I don't already have. Actually it's a lesser phone because mine has a microSD slot that I use. Here's a thought experiment.... send me $150 on paypal now (email on my profile). I'll give you nothing in return. See if you feel like it was money well spent.

Hey as long as your able to get the latest OS and the phone fits your needs, great. But of course other people value different things, and obviously iPhones fit better for lots of people.

jp makes a valid point.

Just going to throw out some rough numbers (in the U.S.) assuming $50 for your data plan, for 3 years.

3 year iphoneSE experience ($400 + 36 months * $50) = $2200

3 year cheap Android experience ($250 + 36 months * $50) = $2050

Now compare the camera, frame rate, screen quality, security, stability, and support of an iphone 5 vs a $250 Android. When looking at the 3 year cost, you are paying a 10% premium for a far superior experience.

I never spend more than $20 a month on my pay as you go data. Don't use calls or sms. That's besides the point though. When you have no money $150 is two weeks worth of food. That becomes a bigger priority.

But all of those are available in a 50$ android phone as well. Arguably not as usable, but around 100$ the difference to an iPhone at 7x the price is not that much.

It's not important that it's 7x better. It's important that the increase in productivity (or enjoyment, etc.) is enough to justify the $600 difference in price over a (perhaps) 24 month period (e.g., do you get ~$1/day more out of it).

Not to mention, a 2 year old iPhone will probably sell for $250-350, while a $100 smartphone will probably sell for $25 after 2 years. This makes the difference more like $300. So, "Do you get ~$0.50/day more out of an iPhone than you do out of a $100 smartphone?" becomes the new question.

If you have serious money problems, you can't spend the "extra" $600 you have on an iPhone, even if it supposedly pays for itself after 24 months.

You spend $600 on food and necessities. Because you need to survive.

I thought this thread was in the context of people who could not really afford an iPhone - or at least have to really think about their spending to be able to buy one. In that context the 0.50$ makes a huge difference.

To me it seems interesting that a lot of people here want to play up the excellence of iPhones.

> people who could not really afford an iPhone

Isn't it a bit strange to make the assumption that somebody who owns an iPhone can't afford to own an iPhone?

What I'm suggesting is that perhaps we'd be served better to not assume somebody "can't afford" something, and spend a bit more time learning why they decided they can afford that thing.

On the other hand, he/she was talking about high school kids. From poor families. Using top-of-the-line smartphones. Hell, I can afford to buy one iPhone per month, but I still don't have it because I think it is unnecessary luxury for me. Noting wrong with the kids and their parents - they can spend their limited funds on whatever they like. But it bites them in the end...

Does it have to be a high-end iphone? How about a cheaper Android device? I think it will match the functionality.

You say the flashlight is minor but I'll be damned if I don't use it almost every day.

You're right - same here. I removed that qualifier.

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