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Comment by ux-app | Hacker News Reader

  > Being forced to do work for which someone else will receive credit or compensation

I have a severely low level of tolerance for this. My first team leader at my first job as a code monkey blatantly took credit for a huge improvement I made to one of the company's long standing processes. It soon became apparent that climbing the corporate ladder meant climbing over the backs of others. I quit 2 weeks later and never returned to a cubicle.

Autonomy is king. Without it, I personally cannot function.

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And how do you achieve autonomy if not via taking power? I mean you can work as a contractor, but the game is the same. You either make low pay, or work for someone else, or have the power to govern other people's agenda.

Personally I made some websites and started selling my apps from then. I quickly started making more than most salaried jobs and get complete control without having to be horrible to anybody. I don't understand why more people don't do it.

That actually sounds like a good plan!

I wanted to reply "I never get good ideas for websites / apps", but then I realized I actually meant "I never get good ideas IN FIVE SECONDS".

Maybe I should spend more time thinking about this :)

I think getting ideas is not the hard part, just do some quick or clever search on places like reddit and you can find lots of ideas or suggestions that people have but can't or won't create. As they say, execution is what actually matters.

Maybe you should spend more time making apps, whether they're a good idea or not. Often ideas in an area come from working in the area, solving problems in the area, talking to other people about the area, thinking about the area in the shower ...

Thank you, that is a GREAT point.

That model is working for me too. In the beginning it might be hard, but now I'm making more than three times the money I could make in a normal job.

edit: And I only have to work two hours a day!

That's very inspiring but are you talking about something like US $300000/year? Or are you in a low-cost-of-living situation... US$30000/year? "3x the money you make a normal job" could mean a lot of different things !

For me I tend to earn between 120k and 240k USD / year, but I only ever work part time on that job, I used to just spend about 3 months of the year on it, but during those 3 months I would do 100 hour weeks. I'd spend the rest the time traveling for fun. If I was working full time constantly it would be double or triple that by now I think. Right now the sales are slumping a little, but that's because I'm neglecting that work a bit while I pursue my side passion a little more (which will hopefully become profitable later).

Some people (i.e. myself) don't want the added work that independence demands.

I like the traditional setup. Some stuff is abstracted away nicely (benefits, office space, working hours).

Recently had a brief chat with a friend about this, why she wouldn’t consider moonlighting as a freelancer since she seemed to have lost passion in her day-to-day work.

“I wouldn’t be able to handle the added stress” was the response, and I can see why from that answer more people don’t do this. Decide to freelance in addition to doing a 9-5 and you’ll not only put more work on your table but other sorts of responsibilities - accounting, client relations, being your own project manager, etc. - will make it much more harder to decompress if you had a shit day at work.

The reason the wind got taken out of my sails for creating my own apps is I worked for three small businesses in a row that had trouble getting enough marketing and visibility for their apps/software to sell enough to stay in business, and I'm hesitant to take on the risk myself, even though I think I have better ideas than some of the projects I worked on.

For the Apple store in particular I've seen it get so crowded without adequate app discovery mechanisms in place that it seems like without serious marketing money you're essentially rolling the dice on how successful your app is going to be. I don't really want to spend a bunch of my time on that, when I could spend it on other pursuits.

But maybe this is a mistaken perception? Why do you think it's so simple to do? Just because you've found success or is your approach different than the norm somehow?

Actually, probably not. Sometimes I still make an app that doesn't do too well. I guess this is the downside. To get started you have to be prepared to make several apps (maybe even up to 10) to be reasonably sure you'll start getting a good income.

But when you do get one, it can generate revenue for a long time coming.

I think with some good market research you could probably be more sure though. And also going into partnership with somebody lowers the risk as you can churn out more apps then share the profits when you do get a successful one. Personally I have not had much luck with the Apple app stores because of their crowded/discovery issues etc, but I also have not put much effort into them due to their horrible restrictions (the sandbox is a killer with the way they've implemented it, and a lot of my software needs admin privs to run)

  > And how do you achieve autonomy if not via taking power?

For me it was by joining a capital 'P' Profession. It quickly became clear to me that I was never going to be a top tier programmer with the skills to dictate my terms of employment, so I ditched software development for teaching. This made sense in Australia because here the salary is at about the same level as senior software developer with essentially 100% autonomy. I go months without seeing my boss and our interactions consist of not much more than a cordial 'how goes it?'

I have a yearly performance review which is a friendly sit down with the boss in which I, for the most part, set the agenda and generally boils down to a summary of the professional development I've undertaken throughout the year. The meeting runs for 1 hour and has always been conducted as a meeting of equals, not as a shakedown.

The job is mostly performed in isolation which results in collegial interactions that are professional and respectful. After all, the profession is not adversarial. My colleagues have nothing to gain from making me look bad.

I often have to pinch myself when I think about the work I do. I am essentially my own boss without any of the uncertainty, volatility or downside.

If you're thinking of a career to teaching, beware and make your decision wisely. My understanding is that in the US it is a disaster. Poor pay, micromanaged to death with all the joy sucked out via standardised testing. It varies country by country. As always do your homework before making any rash decisions.

I imagine there are other professions that offer similar autonomy. Medicine springs to mind.

For me it was by joining a capital 'P' Profession.

I'm not familiar with this phrase. Could you clarify?

Regulated profession. In this context, a profession would essentially be a catch-all for paid work. And a Profession would be paid work for a specific regulated body of "Professionals" with a specific designation or exclusive right to practive. Think doctor, lawyer, accountant.

Or in the UK - Engineer. Not a protected Profession in the US, but is here.

I believe there are PE's in the US - similar to UK CEng.

Depends what kind of engineer you're talking about. You need a license to practice Engineering[0] in the US. It's just that software developers aren't considered Engineers.

[0] http://ncees.org/licensure/

Practicing law at a firm is very similar. Even from the beginning when you're at the lowest rung you're given tasks and it's assumed you'll figure it out on your own or go find help. Very little micromanagement. As you progress upwards you gain the autonomy to find your own clients and manage your own files. Eventually you reach a point where no one gives a hoot what you're doing as long as you bill enough hours. Some people I know work from home and only go into the firm once or twice a month.

I was just about to say your experience with teaching is not the same as everywhere, and about to cite my friends that complain about all the petty "office politics" involved in their teaching jobs (between teachers and staff) and how easy it is to get fired (pre-tenure) when a kid decides they want to ruin your day, and generally management is one big cock-up (especially in university)...... but then you got to the paragraph where you said "My understanding is that in the US it is a disaster" and yep, my teacher friends are all in the US.

Damn, I wish teaching here worked like it does for you. I'd have much happier friends, and might consider it myself.

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