Ask HN: I just don't care anymore. Any advice?

First and most critical piece of advice. Don't drop out if you can financially afford to stay in. You will grow to regret it later.

Second, talk to your professors, adviser, and the dean of the department about your situation. Let them know your skill set so that advanced answers do not come across as cheating.

Third, most major universities allow you to test out. I have completed almost 30 hours towards my degree by testing out of classes and using previous work experience to apply for credit. Testing out usually involves either taking the final exam for the class, doing a major project, or a combination of both. I would highly encourage you to talk to your professor.

Fourth, the classes will get harder and more challenging. Talk to your adviser, professors, and the dean of the department. Determine what your options are for classes and take the most challenging classes as electives.

Fifth, look into a minor that may provide a release from the rut you are in. Even if the minor is something like underwater basketweaving it can provide a break and also provide a way to gain experience in an environment outside your comfort zone.

Finally, see if your school offers any independent study programs or credits for internships. It sounds like you have good skills that could be applied to real-life scenarios while at the same time accomplishing your goal of completing your degree.

Overall very good advice, but your school may not have professors or advisers who have the time to give helpful guidance to undergraduates.

Consider auditing a more advanced class that's related to your interests, with permission of the professor, and do as much of the work/reading as you can.

In my experience, sitting in on one inspiring or interesting course can make surviving four others bearable or even expose surprising corners in previously dull material.

If you're underchallenged, dropping out will make you underchallenged and unemployed with no prospects of securing gainful employment in the immediate future. People who are both better credentialed and better skilled then you are also looking for work right now. You do not want to compete against them on the basis of "I was something of a PHP hotshot in high school."

Your classes are not the only avenue you have in life. Phone it in for the CS classes if you have to. (I did that for I think the first two years of my undergraduate degree, because even at a quite good school that was mostly "We'll teach you Java syntax! This is how you do a variable assignment! Study that for the next week and we'll do complicated stuff like doing two variable assignments!") If there is nothing in the department worth studying (which I kind of doubt), transfer to a better school and apply for loans.

You're probably a good candidate for a double major in CS and a field which will teach you something useful. This is a good strategy for future employment prospects and, trust me, you can find something interesting and challenging. I did Japanese and it changed my life.

Your college classes are not your sole outlet for personal growth, by the way. Society has agreed to give you 21 hours a day, five days a week, for the next three or four years, free of any expectation that you have to show up anywhere and put in eight hours of work. Use that time well. Think you know programming? Build stuff. You'll find out how much you have yet to learn.

>"I was something of a PHP hotshot in high school."

That's not at all what I mean to imply. I wasn't trying to come across as "I'm cocky because I know a few things" so much as "I'm depressed because I'm learning even less than what little I learned on my own in highschool"

>"We'll teach you Java syntax! This is how you do a variable assignment! Study that for the next week and we'll do complicated stuff like doing two variable assignments!"

Exactly.

>You're probably a good candidate for a double major in CS and a field which will teach you something useful. This is a good strategy for future employment prospects and, trust me, you can find something interesting and challenging. I did Japanese and it changed my life.

I've already started on that route.

>Think you know programming? Build stuff. You'll find out how much you have yet to learn.

I agree completely with you on this. After doing so, I really do realize my limitations, and I know that there is so much more I have to learn. It's just that to learn anything in any useful depth requires mostly self-study (since school is slowly-paced and bent towards getting you a low-rung C++ job when you graduate), which I enjoy more anyway. But when you realize that, you wonder what the courses are there for.

You do realise that college/university isnt so much about being spoon fed information but learning how to figure it out for yourself.

Keep up your grades (they will be worth more to you then you think later on) and start reading the papers your professors are writing. Ask them about them. Understand them. Doing this will open up all sorts of doors. I landed a job writing code for a Doctoral student by doing this.

Not only will you be learning more you will stand out in your professors minds because you took the initative to learn what they do outside of teaching students "for loops". This is the point of being there. Learning for learnings sake, not just to get a piece of paper at the end.

>You do realise that college/university isnt so much about being spoon fed information but learning how to figure it out for yourself.

If I came of as wanting this, then I apologize. In fact, all I really want is challenging, fast-paced course where I can do just that. Instead, I take courses where what you haven't learned in class is 'illegal', and what you actually have learned is very little.

Ah I see. Remember that the course is designed that way so that everyone is on an equal footing (which makes marking easier).

In your case I would say stick with the course. University/College isn't about learning things from the subjects (you will find later most is useless) but it proves you are willing to stick it out and finish which does mean something to an employeer. If thats all you want then fine. However it seems you want to learn for learnings sake. In which case as I said, find out what your professors are doing and learn from them. Its the best place to learn.

Perhaps use your time to learn something you know nothing about. CPU design? Compiler design? AI? I spent my spare time learning how to Decode Captcha's because I thought it was interesting and looked like magic until I learnt how. Thats the point of being there.

Best of luck with it! Having been in the same situation I can understand the frustration. I found improving my social life and learning on my own projects helped me a lot in the first year. Then I did as many here have suggested, branched out and took Chinese Language (in China) which challanged me and kept my focus.

You can also take harder courses (if possible). Taking things like Theory of Computation and Algorithms and Data Structures were some of the harder but more satisfying courses I took while a student.

>Perhaps use your time to learn something you know nothing about. CPU design? Compiler design? AI? I spent my spare time learning how to Decode Captcha's because I thought it was interesting and looked like magic until I learnt how. Thats the point of being there.

I'm really starting to like Lisp, which leads to AI. I might look at something along those lines.

>Taking things like Theory of Computation and Algorithms and Data Structures were some of the harder but more satisfying courses I took while a student.

Rest assured, I've been waiting with baited breath to take those courses. It's just that getting to them requires about 3 or 4 boring classes.

Thanks for your advice!

if i were in your shoes, this is what i would do:

1) do the due diligence and research to determine if the CS classes got harder. see if i can test out of or just generally skip some of the classes, if it isn't too late. talk to your advisor.

2) consider taking on a double major while you're wading through the terrible CS classes. math, physics, engineering, philosophy, etc.. something that interests you. if CS ends up getting harder, you can always trim it back to a minor.

3) do more stuff on your own time. college affords you tons of free time, especially if you're coasting through easy classes. build a startup. start a business. contribute to open source projects.

Being more than twice your age I can assure you of one thing. You will get these feelings in College, in your job and in your business. Even with your partner wife etc. You need to find a method that works for you to cope.

During College I got terribly bored of lectures and was quite ahead of my class mates - and wouldn't be surprised some of the lecturers. I decided to infrequently attend lectures and studied for exams and assignments only. Piece of cake really to sail through. My social life improved by 1000%. I loved and love learning. I would go into the library and borrow all sort of interesting books from anthropology to physics (even dated one of the librarians). I was fortunate to study in London. Visited all the museums - the patent library (amazing). I worked part-time in a fish-and-chips shop (was a great experience to learn customer service). It was like physically surfing. I even took diving classes and went diving in a reservoir in Scotland. Really if you want not to be bored is easy. Refocus - you are there to earn a degree that is your target. Learning is a different and solo activity.

It is much more difficult if you get these feelings in your work. Again you can channel energy into other activities, you can put research into areas of your job that others consider routine. Changing a job would merely put you into a similar spot once the novelty wears out. Divide your efforts into

  - must do
  - this is my life things

The must do you do for survival and you handle them as best as you can. In the this is my life things you add the variety.

Expanding into non-CS fields I believe is a great idea, as CS is a science, lots of great cross-polination of knowledge could be amazingly helpful one day. Pick something you find interesting and go for it. Even if it is not science related, many fields are in need of good programmers to move them along to the next level, and the more you know, the more valuable you may be.

However, you mention that you aren't getting the high 'A's anymore. If all your classes are so trivial, why not? I assume you've spoken to your professors, or the dean of CS? If not, i'd do so. They may be willing to bring you into some more challenging environments if you show an interest and the capabilities.

I dropped out of Uni, and have absolutely no regrets. But you sound like you would be really into it if it were more challenging, so maybe stick with it.

Is there a local tech company that you find is doing interesting work? If so, before dropping out, you might be able to work a program where they bring you on as a co-op with the University. That way you get the challenge along with true work experience, the business gets a deal, and gets to see how you work, and the university gets... I have no idea what the universities get, but in Canada, co-ops are pretty common, I assume they are in the US too.

>However, you mention that you aren't getting the high 'A's anymore. If all your classes are so trivial, why not?

Because I look at the fact that we've done the same type assignment for 5 weeks now in CS class and decide I just don't care. Normally you'd think "Oh, it's easy, just finish it up!", but after the third of fourth time of doing the same thing, I just can't make myself do it. "Write a class that contains 3 variables name x,y,z. For next week, make sure they're named pizza, ham, eggs" and so on.

>"They may be willing to bring you into some more challenging environments if you show an interest and the capabilities."

That would really change my outlook. I'm not normally very outgoing, but I guess I could go ask a few of the professors.

Unfortunately, there is a certain amount of tedium to life. Whether that is doing the dishes night in/night out, chasing down invoices, doing your taxes, provisioning servers, some things just need to get done. Unless you can pay someone else to do them, then there is the tedium of managing those people, paying them, etc.

Anyone can excel at the things they like. It is highly unlikely you will make it through life isolated to only the things you enjoy. Ultimately, you'll need to learn to take care of business whether you enjoy it or not.

You're almost certain to need credits outside of your major. Even if you enjoy learning, there will be some classes you are going to need to grind through. "Bank" your easy A's now, save those grade points for a rainy day.

For me the best thing you can get from university is the people you can talk with. Many smart people with good ideas. Ignore stupid/incompetent profesors, learn from the smart ones, talk with smart people and try to do sth great with them, later you won't have time to try new things.

If there is some students' educational club (I don't know how to say this in English - students teach students about what interests them) - go to it, ask if you can help, start new class about functional programming or what interests you, if there aren't any - you'll learn much more from trying to teach others than you could learn by reading the book.

I've met many great people that way, and made connections so in my 5th year of studies I got programming job , becaus people already working there knew I was good.

PS - if you become used to "B"s then "C" will come, etc. I was "A" student without effort at first year, and have great difficulties later because I got used to having "A" with no effort.

Even if you're bored and feeling unchallenged, you should stay in college and perhaps take the initiative to self-study on more advanced topics, or better yet, broaden your skill set with other things that you're interested in.

For example, I can tell you that it's very rare to find somebody who has strong software skills AND a solid background in mechanical engineering/civil engineering. Which explains why finite element software, alot of it feels like its stuck in the Stone Age. That's a field that could use a ton of help from a user-interface standpoint.

That's just one example, I'm sure there are many others. College is one of the best chances for you to learn something without being hampered with alot of responsibilities like a full-time job or other obligations, so make the very best use of it that you can.

Have you talked to the faculty about this? If you can show your professor that you know everything he is teaching, I'm sure he will help make it challenging for you. Ie either by giving harder assignments where you'll learn more or he wont take your attendance and let you sit in on some other advanced class which you'll find more challenging.

Do NOT leave school. There's no other place where you'll find smart people who are paid money to teach you the stuff that you want. And those grades will make a huge difference in your income and how your viewed when you go in for a job.

Ask for help with your problem from the sources available to you and you will get it. It might take a few attempts to get to a professor who understands your situation but it will be worth it.

Study math or physics. You should be able to get a programming job out of college, if you still want to write code. I knew a really good programmer who studied Latin in college. Getting an entry level programming job with another degree shouldn't be too difficult.

This is something I've strongly considered, but I know nothing of how 'difficult' it is to land such a job. There are so many neat things to do, but I can't really tell how many companies only care about skill and knowledge as opposed to having just "BS Computer Science" on a piece of paper.

Do really well in physics or math and you'll be fine.

That's what I've observed of others. I certainly know I would hire a math or physics major if they demonstrated they knew their programming and CS (in fact, I did hire one who had an U of Virginia Applied Math major that was largely a CS major, 6 months out of college for his 2nd job).

In general the advice here is good. Play the games the CS department insists on if the higher level courses are worth anything and find other areas that are genuinely challenging.

If the "you're cheating" attitude is a reflection of the department instead of a quirk of the instructor (who good wants to teach that sort "Learn Java Syntax!" course?) then think really hard about your options that don't include taking many/any more courses in it.

And as others say, find a professor to do research with. If you can't, find another school, don't look so much for a "good" school as for one where you can do research. You should be able to find someone who needs good code written cheap.

I'm sure there are a few good courses. It's just wading through the crap that makes it unbearable.

Hilariously awful example: the "teacher" of the class wanted to explain what a pointer was, so he gave us a link to a Wikipedia article on pointers.

"I'm sure there are a few good courses."

"Trust, but verify."

WRT pointers, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointers is wonderful additional reading, but a very poor first introduction to the concept. Maybe better than the pointers and arrays chapter in K&R, which didn't work for me, but only that.

Yep, this guy is worse than useless (the accusations of cheating). The high school coach who taught my high school computer programming course (punched card FORTRAN "IV" on an IBM 1130) was a lot better ... then again he gave us a not in the book blackboard lecture on the two's compliment system, which I found to be tremendously useful going forward (just knowing that there was something behind the opaque veil of integers and floating point numbers was in and of itself useful).

See if you can find a non-loser CS professor (or maybe one who needs some FORTRAN worked on ^_^ ... anything real and concrete ought to beat this) and go from there. Good luck!

1) Find some research with a professor. Look at their websites, see what interests you and talk to the professor. Make sure you understand their papers and have intelligent questions for them. Make them feel that you'll be useful.

2) Look into some of the theory. Its probably quite different from what you've done in high school. There is some fascinating CS theory out there. Algorithms, turing machines, graph theory, etc... are beautiful fields.

3) Find a crazy minor. By crazy, I mean non-technical. Film, english, political science, etc... You'll branch out, be more useful to any employer, be challenged and have fun.

4) Talk to your dean (someone else said this, but I think its a great idea). Let them know your background and tell them what you want to do.

Good luck.

I was in your shoes years ago. I dropped out of computer engineering and ended up getting a degree in english literature - and I kept improving and learning programming and systems design. Now I am a literature nerd who can also code. That is a tremendous advantage for me since I meet and work with people from all walks of life. The pay is lower outside of the pure CS / programming disciplines but I don't regret it one bit. Hope this helps. Stick with school and maybe think about why you are in that super boring course when you could either go all the way and test out of it / talk your way into upper year courses, or learn something unexpected/unknown.

Transfer. Seriously. I'm in a similar situation and that's what I plan on doing.

Go to a better place that you deserve to be at and that will challenge you. Apply for loans if you can't afford it. In ten years, you will be glad that you did.

I've been feeling like that a lot lately. I might look into it, but from what I gather transferring into nice schools is even more painful than applying normally.

Another area is 3-d animation + coding...if you're already a good artist, you can rule if you have a robust set of programming skills (so I am told).

A large part of what a college degree demonstrates is that you're willing to complete 4 years of crap, only some of which was fun / challenging / etc. Not many people want to hire a "whiz kid" who has already demonstrated that he'll quit on you if he feels bored for a year.

Also, someday you might find yourself interested in a masters or doctoral program. That's gunna be a tough sell if you weren't able to complete a Bachelors.

Suck it up, do your work, and find some other way to amuse yourself until the coding classes get more interesting.

It depends on what you want to do. The college CS curriculum typically is good for teaching students to become professors. If that is what you want, stick to CS.

If you want to go more toward the software engineer approach you have a few options. You can stick with CS, but try to work on actual projects. For example, you can contribute to an open source project or start a company. The main thing is to work on projects that aren't cookie-cutter tasks, such as the ones that are common in school.

Switching majors so you can learn something new is also a great option. What are your other interests? If you do go with the school route, you will probably learn more about problem solving by learning a new field. You can still use your programming skills with many majors.

Another option is to get a job. Frankly, I think college is overrated. School is good, but there it is not the only route. You could probably get a good position at a startup, and will probably learn more than in school.

I didn't get interested in programming until I was a sophomore in college. I graduated with a BS in Engineering Physics. I'm glad I didn't major in CS, and I was still able to pursue software development. You will have plenty of opportunities in school to try new things. I have to say that I have learned more about problem solving (at a faster rate) while in the workforce, than in school.