Visiting Factories in China as an Entrepreneur | Hacker News Reader

Visiting Factories in China as an Entrepreneur

needwant.com

98 pointsj0ncc63 comments

" All we had to do was download an app and click on some mysterious Chinese advertisements to top up our data. "

This is the sort of shit that keeps network security people awake at night. I bet they enabled third-party app downloads on their Android phones and uninstalled some unknown .apk

The future business leaders of America... fuck...

> The future business leaders of America

"All we had to do was download a program and we got free Internet" seems similar, and the dialer-scam was used widely throughout the US.

The previous sentence about SIM cards:

"We tried to buy 3, and we were told they were free."

Welcome to not-America. I think the free data reloads are a sign of how cheap mobile bandwidth could be.

Maybe they can bring back that practice.

> "All we had to do was download an app and click on some mysterious Chinese advertisements"

I'm sure the app was tracking everything about you and selling your personal data. Apps do this in the US too, but just saying -- there are no free lunches.

For frequent international travellers, Google Fi and T-mobile both give free international data roaming at 2G/3G speeds, by the way.

Why does this have to be a scam?

Financing a public wifi hotspot by running advertisement is common thru-out the world.

Hong Kong has some of the cheapest and fastest internet/mobile network on the planet. Using the same business model with mobile data is a logical evolution.

well, it doesn't have to be a scam, but when chinese people do it, it just makes it so much more obvious than when white people do it.

they should probably hire some[0] to run these kiosks.

[0] http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/29/china.rent.white.peop...

Can someone flag this comment?

Their doe-eyed turnip truck perspective was cringy all the way through. McDonalds is the same, but different! And they negotiated 3000 dollars off! How lucky! And he sent them off to Hainan Island. Prosperity and success can not be in doubt.

"Winston wanted to send us away to a Chinese island called Hainan for a few days during the slow part of production." Of course he didn't want foreigners snooping around in his factory. It must have been cheaper to pay their holidays than run the factory at Western standards for "a few days" to please naive visitors.

Not to be too sexist about it, they appointed two young ladies to accompany these three young American men to the island. I guess it provided some extra incentive to visit Hainan.

Wish the Chinese would stop doing this kind of shady behavior.

To be fair to China's chauvinist culture they would've done the same of the visitors/clients were Chinese. Actually if they were Chinese they probably would've been taken directly to a brothel.

For anyone travelling to China through HK, China Mobile sell a $15 SIM in their HK stores that will give you 1.5 GB of 3G/4G data in both HK and China for 10-days.

China Mobile have the largest network on the mainland and I've used it a number of times without issue.

This also has the benefit of allowing you to access any site that is accessible from HK (all) while in China.

Edit:

URL: https://www.hk.chinamobile.com/en/corporate_information/Prep...

If you only have a 3G device, or a 4G device that doesn't support the available FDD-LTE bands, you might be better off getting a China Unicom HK card instead. They have HSPA+ on 2100 MHz. Google services work fine on them.

The cards are hard or impossible to find within the HKIA transit area, so you will want to either pick it from a street retailer in HK, or order from their English webstore - http://www.cugstore.com/hk_en/. Street prices are usually cheaper.

(No affiliation, just a happy customer from a few months back. I got their "Greater China 30 Days Data SIM" because I was spending time in Macau and Hong Kong as well.)

> The future business leaders of America... fuck...

* Didn't know they need a visa to China.

* Paid $730 for 3 visas.

* Didn't know there's a border between HK and China.

* Didn't know there's a public transport in HK and didn't need to take cabs for 200 USD.

* Didn't know menus in China are in Chinese.

* Had to eat McD on their 4th day in Asia.

* Had McD again on day 5.

Hilarious story :)

These are the sort of people who give Americans a bad name overseas. I mean seriously how do you fail to learn that China requires visas? Or know the history of HK-China and why there is a border? At least they're apparently not blistering blowhards like some merkins in Europe.

This is a little unfair, a lot of these really aren't too unreasonable if you are unfamiliar with China. $730 for 3 Chinese Visas with rushed service actually isn't really overpriced, in fact it's about the price I would expect.

It's hard for them to know exactly how good the Hong Kong public transit system is without being explicitly told, taking cabs is a natural choice for most foreigners in a new city. They also stated they knew there was probably a better way for the boarder crossing, but chose not to look since it was convenient and they didn't mind spending the money.

I'm pretty sure they knew the menus in China would be in Chinese, they were just stating the fact so the reader could understand that doing a simple task such as eating was actually a challenge to a foreigner.

It's not crazy to want to eat something familiar and safe. It's good to try new things which they did, but some times you just want to order something to fill you up that you know will taste decent. It takes awhile to figure out which local cuisines are delicious and which are a bit too foreign for westerners.

I do think that they should have been a bit more prepared, but they certainly did a lot better than most people who travel to China. The entire experience is quite a culture shock no matter how much you prepare.

> This is a little unfair, a lot of these really aren't too unreasonable if you are unfamiliar with China. $730 for 3 Chinese Visas with rushed service actually isn't really overpriced, in fact it's about the price I would expect.

If you are unfamiliar with China, you read about China instead of playing Nintendo DS... This is everywhere on the Web if you take 1 minute to look it up.

> It's hard for them to know exactly how good the Hong Kong public transit system is without being explicitly told

Again, it's everywhere on the Interwebs. The expat community is HUGE in Hong Kong and therefore there is a HUGE source of documentation online (not only official websites, but also blogs and the like).

> It's not crazy to want to eat something familiar and safe. It's good to try new things which they did, but some times you just want to order something to fill you up that you know will taste decent. It takes awhile to figure out which local cuisines are delicious and which are a bit too foreign for westerners.

And that's why you usually prepare a trip like this, at least to know how to recognize characters like 雞 (chicken)，豬 (pork)，牛 (beef)，魚 (fish), 麪 (noodles)，飯 (rice). With these 6 characters alone, you can already have a much better understanding of any menu in Chinese.

I'm laughing at Chinese tourists who, after two days in Paris, are sick of the French food and want fried rice, but it looks like it's the same the other way around (and even worse, cause usually the Chinese tourists are old and I can understand they are not used to some food, but when you're young... come on!).

I hope you didn't just take taxis around all day. Public transport, especially the trains in Hong Kong are day and night compared to most other countries in terms of pricing, speed and reliability.

6000USD/Month for 600sqft is ridiculous, even by HK standards. It's probably a 5-star serviced apartment, i.e. long-stay hotel.

Paying 200 to drive across the border is a rip-off though. There are trains and buses that take you right across for less than $20, in the same amount of time.

>Paying 200 to drive across the border is a rip-off though

Agreed. For anyone planning a similar trip, the train to the border at Lok Ma Chau costs less than US$5 and you can then just walk through immigration. Taxis and the Shenzhen subway are right on the other side.

You can also get a 5 day Shenzhen only visa at the border for a lot cheaper than the regular Chinese visa. (Although only from the Lo Wu crossing).

Be aware that U.S. and French citizens are NOT permitted to apply for the 5-day Shenzhen port visa. [1]

It's also not guaranteed for other citizens so probably best to get a regular China visa rather than risk being turned back at the border.

[1] http://www.travelchina.gov.cn/art/2015/1/30/art_15_45566.htm...

Regarding border crossing ... if you haven't crossed into China before, it's quite possibly worth taking a full-service car that has driving privileges on both sides of the border. For a first timer who might not have much international travel experience, disembarking on the HK side, going through customs & immigration unaccompanied, then finding the right transport on the other side and being able to communicate destination, can be daunting. After you've done it once, no problem, but the first time is anxiety inducing. Also, the lines. If you pick the wrong time and you hit the border with tens of buses in line, you're going to have a bad time.

Lo Wu and Lok Ma Chau are fairly straightforward; it's really hard to screw up. I'd wager that taking the train to Lo Wu would have been easier for them, actually, because their contact could just meet them in the (relatively) small at-grade Luohu exit that everyone is forced to funnel through.

My goodness. Their website is made exactly after this article:

https://medium.com/slackjaw/template-for-tech-product-announ...

As for their story... Well, it's great that they wrote up a summary of their adventures, but I'm appalled at the fact that these three 25-something year old Americans are amazed that in China, people speak Chinese and nothing is written in English... Welcome to the World, I guess!

>three 25-something year old Americans

It says that they departed from St. Louis, but I don't think that they're American. For one, their English isn't at a native level. Also, at one point in the article they referred to what the vast majority of Americans would call a "soccer ball" a "football." There are many other terms and phrases that I wouldn't expect an American to use, like "China border." Assuming you are American, think about it, do you hear anyone calling it the "Canada border?" No, we say "Canadian border." Maybe Western or Northern European.

There is a caption on one image that mentions that at least one of them is from the UK: "There are lots of things in Hong Kong that Jon remembers from the UK, like Lucazade!"

Which is another mistake, since it's "Lucozade", as you can see in the photo right above. Plus, at one point they say "it costed us X".

From http://needwant.com/about/ :

> Marshall Haas, CEO & Co-Founder: A Texas native…

> David Myers, Design & Co-Founder: From New York…

> Jason Cox, Head of Operations: Jason was a fashion model in NYC…

The only one who's not from the US is

> Jon Wheatley, Product & Co-Founder: Born and raised on the south coast of the UK…

Are you telling me in addition of not knowing that people in China speak Chinese, they don't know how to write in their own language?

Oh my.

>Are you telling me in addition of not knowing that people in China speak Chinese, they don't know how to write in their own language?

Apparently so.

To be fair, we don't actually have any evidence that the four co-founders wrote this article themselves. Maybe the bedding manufacturing isn't the only thing they outsourced. /s

They're native speakers, but the style is weird, agreed. I think it's the generally extremely simple sentence structure and vocabulary -- this blogpost is probably at a third-grade reading level. There's also no deep commentary on any of the things they encountered or things they thought about. I couldn't help but feel as if I was reading some kind of picturebook intended for children.

There are also things like "you wouldn’t be able to breath" that make you wonder if they are typos or actual spelling mistakes.

These are smart guys who are catering to the wannapreneur/internet marketer crowd, not tech geeks and seasoned entrepreneurs.

>wannapreneur/internet marketer crowd

I have to agree with this, based on the 'products' they 'make' at their company.

Seriously, these guys should have spent the plane ride over learning Chinese phrases. Might have made their adventures more adventurous.

I have to wonder if there's a market for people who specialize in helping foreigners do factory tours like this more efficiently. For a few hundred dollars, someone who actually knows China could have easily paid for themselves by preventing ripoffs like the taxi to the border (as others have pointed out, the train is dirt cheap) and the rush visas (you can get them done in HK within 24 hours for way less than $200), and made the whole trip smoother and less stressful. As someone who lived in China, this seems like it would be pretty fun.

This was my first thought on reading the article also.

This market not only exists, but is quite saturated already with plenty of foreigners based in China making a living out of it. I've done this kind of work before and it's only fun the first time, then when it's time to actually deal with the suppliers it becomes stressful on a whole another level.

Dangerous Prototypes run periodic hacker camps which tour the markets in Shenzhen, I think recently they're including a factory tour. The focus is more electronics, but the general principles about navigating the city is probably transferable.

http://dangerousprototypes.com/hackercampshenzhen/

> you can get them done in HK within 24 hours for way less than $200

They didn't mention whether that price included the PRC processing fee, but if it did that's not a terrible deal for having expedited it in the States. Honestly, given some of the crap I've had to go through with PRC immigration, I don't blame anyone for paying extra to make sure everything's in line before they fly 18 hours across the world.

I enjoyed that account of their experience. It's a bit cliché and naive but not in a bad way. They seem to have genuine wonder for what they encountered and it's an experience that has opened their eyes to a different world and -hopefully- made them question some of their previous beliefs and assumptions about the world.

I especially love it when people come to Hong Kong for the first time. I still view that city with the same wonder I had when I arrived 20 years ago, probably why I never left.

The account of their visit in China is spot on. It's messy, impossible to fully grasp, completely alien and yet things get done, fast. You better be there during early production if you value your product though. They did well to make the trip.

They make $350 sheets. Think about that for a second. $350 for cut and sewn planes of linen.

I was all about it until I saw the price. Elevated for no reason. They sell it a premium price point to just give the illusion of extreme quality. It's made just like any other linen bed sheets you can buy with a few buttons to connect the top sheet to the duvet.

Someone could make a duvet with some buttons and sell it at 1/10th the price.

OK, why not you? If this is so easy? You remind me of the people that laugh at modern art, in the MOMA, and say, "I could do this myself." Think beyond the first derivative.

Well for the art example, just because someone could make a piece of art doesn't mean they have any interest in doing so. I could squirt paint randomly on a canvas, but it would be a huge waste of time.

> 1/10th the price.

they always said talk was cheap, but you've handily put an exact figure on it - 90% off!

Actually, if you price us up against other _linen_ bedding you’ll see that we’re incredibly competitive. Something comparable would cost upwards of $600.

Once you factor in the fact that linen lasts up to 10x as long as cotton the price becomes much more stomachable.

What does your margin end up being? I can imagine that cutting out typical retailer margins, stocking fees, insurance, etc... can cut a $600 bed set to $350 pretty quickly.

Just because comparable goods are more expensive, doesn't mean you cant cut the price to 1/10th. You're including margin with cost. These are separate variables in pricing.

Maybe slackstation has an incorrect view on achievable base material costs but your retort doesn't answer this.

This is something I'd genuinely like to know more about. Ikea sells an (ostensibly) 100% linen duvet + pillowcase set for $80; aside from the two sheets, what else makes up the delta?

Partially relevant. Bunnie's guide in doing business with electronic factories and suppliers in Shenzhen.

http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4585

Why is the author seemingly afraid of every new experience? Is this normal?

I thought authors' account was fairly genuine, instead of trying to pretend that Americans on average consider heads, feet, and cartilage desirable portions of an animal.

That said, from a food perspective I could have done with a bit more detail on interesting things they ate and a bit less on the differences between American and foreign McDonald's.

Nice blog post, it makes me remember my early years as a professional in China. Now as a 27 year old who flies back and forth once every 1.5 months to manage a team of 3 Chinese developers, I really miss the times when everything was a discovery and looked so fresh and cool. After a while you get used to it and start noticing all the bad details. It takes away a lot of the enjoyment that pushed me there in the first place. The good part is that China always finds ways to amaze and entertain me.

This seems like a pretty strange road trip with very little business content. More like a "ZOMG-wow we are in China" (wait you need Visa for that?). I would have been very suspect and have refused to go on that booked vacation. And smoking because you don't want to upset someone...strange. Oh yeah we will just take that click on a bunch of adds thingy..what could possibly go wrong. ALL IN ALL IT WAS WORTH IT.

Nice post, but I am disappointed that you did not post the names of the hotels you stayed at. I would have enjoyed details of where you spent your money.

I am interested in this too. $100/night and $70/night sounds affordable and looking at the picture, the hotel room looked pretty good.

The Hong Kong one is most definitely Ovolo Southside:

http://needwant.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/17.jpeg

http://www.35mm.com.ph/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Hong_Kong_...

These poor guys, it seems not one nice thing was said about them or their article. I suspect they will think twice before posting to HN again.

The article is poorly written and they seem absolutely clueless, have too much money (most likely from a trust fund set up by daddy) and too little sense. There's nothing nice to say.

As my grandma used to say, if you can't say anything nice, it's better to not say anything at all

Fascinating. Sounds like a 2/3 vacation, 1/3 work, but I guess the time was well spent, as they caught production problems earlier on.

Nice post. Quiet true about everything in china. If the labor price is higer in china, these young man probably will visit laos or vietnam

Cringe

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