North Korea sentences US tourist to 15 years in prison
bigstory.ap.org
bigstory.ap.org
He said he was offered a used car worth $10,000
if he could get a banner and was also told that
if he was detained and didn't return, $200,000
would be paid to his mother in the form of a
charitable donation.
This seems really weird to me. I get that a college student would see it fun to steal a propaganda banner from North Korea and not realise how severe such punishment could possibly be.
I don't see how anyone would want to pay $10.000 for a banner, let alone risk $200.000 for its attempted acquisition.
But assuming this is a story the accused gave under duress from the North Korean regime, seems even more crazy.
I really don't know what to believe.
That said, more likely is the bit about the Z society, who have a track record of getting their supplicants variously arrested and killed over the last century and a bit, who were probably the ones actually pushing the idea.
It just seems odd from every angle, except the Z-society, if we are willing to believe they are grade A assholes who would put up a fake monetary reward to convince someone to get in a lot of trouble.
From the history of their actions, they don't seem to have very brilliant people in charge ;)
Whatever the story is, it doesn't matter. The NK government is perhaps batshit crazy, but they're not stupid. The detainee is going to be a bargaining chip.
This is a sad story. Poor guy must be terrified.
It's really difficult to collect the facts. All pieces that circulate today seem to come from the same source.
- The AP report (essentially a North Korean press release)
- Warmbier's confessions (as real as a theatre play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYUMImDfhoo)
Doesn't seem to be sufficient to comment on the 'severe' crime or the punishment. Fingers crossed to have Warmbier home soon, and hear it all at first-hand.
They were EU citizens, they were in another EU country and still, they were arrested 1 month, had to pay a fine of around 5000 euros each and to forfeit their right to enter that country, even being a Schengen country, for some years.
I know that this case in N. Korea is much worst, but you must understand that some countries (even free and democratic countries) can take this kind of things very seriously.
I hope the guy get's to return home, but he really showed very poor judgment.
Apparently they were given quite a leeway for what regular travel reports tell.
I don't know if the charges are true, but given the history, North Korea doesn't seem like the best place to go to have fun, go to bars, or steal banners, specially with an American passport.
I hope diplomacy can move fast enough and get the release of this poor guy.
Hundreds of people get into similar trouble every year. The only reason why this is notable is that it's a prank in North Korea. If he really did try to steal the poster, then he's a moron who walked into the lion's den and tweaked it's nose - it's not like NK's dictatorial control and harsh penalties are subtle and poorly-known. If the story is true, he should be near the bottom of the help-needed list, because there's plenty more who need diplomatic assistance for misadventure beyond their control.
I really don't understand this trend of people going to NK and seeing how far they can push the line. It doesn't make sense - push too far, and you're fucked. And again, it's not like it's easy to innocently go too far - it's difficult to get into the country, it's in the public mind as a crazy place you don't want to step wrong, and you're constantly reminded when you are there. You actually have to want to go there and be an arse if you do go there and be an arse.
It was perhaps a stupid idea, but he doesn't actually deserve 15 years hard labor for the antics of a 20-something prankster.
The kid simply doesn't deserve it and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him.
O…k?
Nobody is saying he does.
> and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him.
Sure, but that's not the question. The question is: Is it the right thing to do to help him, at the expense of helping someone else? They don't deserve it either.
But life is unfair, and we can only do so much at once - this is basic opportunity cost. It's simply impossible for us to do everything at once - we're merely human. Even when your goal is to eventually save everyone, you have to prioritize.
Even when the stakes are as high as helping people survive North Korea. Perhaps especially then - when it matters most to do as much good as possible.
There have been batch releases in the past, these releases can be "bundled."
He's twenty-one years old. He can drive a heavy vehicle, vote for politicians that affect all of society, and die in a uniform for his country.
> doesn't deserve 15 years for tearing down a poster
I don't think he deserves it either. I also don't think people deserve years of jailtime for simple possession of drugs, yet american jails are full of such people. The same kind of "kids" who make the same kind of decisions ("this will be fun!"). The right thing to do there is not imprison those people - even if you think possession should be illegal, years of jailtime is too excessive a punishment.
The only thing that makes this newsworthy is that it happened in NK, and he's 'lucky' about that - because newsworthy = publicly visible, and that means the government is more likely to get involved. If this had happened in a place like Eritrea, it'd be lucky to make the news, because as I said above, this kind of stuff happens to hundreds of people every year.
This is why the US sends representatives from the State Department to negotiate his release and not the National Weather Service.
The North Korean government is pretty close. The people in it are borderline insane, so you can't deal with them like you would deal with rational human beings.
What happens if Kim abdicated and NK became a true democratic state? He and the rest of the leadership would be hunted down for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
It's a dynasty protecting itself at the expense of everyone else.
No, I think the dynasty stays in power because they actually want to be in power.
Most antics of 20-something pranksters don't cost their country diplomatic favors, but of course North Korea is gonna make sure this one does. That's why it's so incredibly obvious to everyone else in the world that you probably shouldn't act like your typical 20-something prankster in North Korea.
The reality is that this favor will likely cost someone else something; hopefully they'll make sure to not prioritize him over too many other people, considering the sheer stupidity of this.
The fact that North Korea is so insane is what makes pulling a prank there irresistible, that's why the prank has "value."
So I do hope they get him out asap, with the other hundreds of people of course.
They do everything to offend and enrage without actually crossing the line where military action is called for. Its their only way of negotiating with countries they have no relations with. Which is nearly everybody?
You can't expect human rights from your own country be respected everywhere.
Morbid curioisity about some of the stranger and darker places in the world. Some people want to experience negative things as well as positive, as it seems necessary to get a full picture of our place on this planet.