EDIT: Grammar
Boss: "Yep. What about it?"
You: "So instead of getting enough sleep at night I've been using that time to take on lots of extra paid work for other companies. To make up for it, can you give me time off to sleep at work?"
Boss: ಠ_ಠ
Where in the software industry are you working a 40-hour week? Outside of government, I've never heard of a programming job that consistently limits employees to 40-hour weeks.
A contract that charged by the hour, so I wasn't that reluctant. The novelty wore off after a few months though. My second development job had management who tried guilt tripping everyone into giving free overtime every day.
Try more like 4 (and that's a stretch)
I have never worked at a job where they required me to work more than 40 hours, even if I've come across work cultures where people consistently worked more.
Funny thing is that we actually have a rest room where one can take a nap if you want to. I've never used it though.
With spikes to more, of course, when vital. But only when there's a regulatory deadline, or something has gone seriously wrong.
Not doubting your situation, but pretty much every job I've had has told me, "40 hours, unless it's vital!", followed by much apparently "vital" work.
That said, I can't believe the OP isn't trolling. Asking for a nap at work because you're taking on too much extra work after-hours?
Thank you, I was beginning to think there was a gigantic industry conspiracy against me and my friends, while the rest of you are off sipping martinis at 5 p.m.
That said, I can readily believe the 40/hour week situation is different in Europe. However, on average, European developers do get paid significantly less than N. American developers, so it's not like everything is totally equal here.
By the way, working overtime is not viewed as a negative when quite literally everyone around you (mostly 20-year olds with no family) is working 60+ hours/week. Quite the opposite. And no, this was no start-up.
I am modeling the business I am building after them. As of right now I am technically the only employee, but I don't work more than 9 hours a day if I don't want to. I'm also thinking about doing their Summer Hours thing too.
Limits? Perhaps not, but I've been in this industry for 25 years and in all the hundreds of projects I've completed, I've never had a single project where I was told I had to provide more than 40 hours of work per week for 40 hours pay. There have been many that I have voluntarily contributed more than that because I felt it was warranted or I needed to, but that was on me, not my employer. If you are putting yourself in a position where you feel obligated to provide time over and above what you are being paid for, then you don't truly value your time - and that's one commodity that you can never get back. If your boss doesn't respect that your work life balance, then you need to own the fact that you haven't gained their respect for your time and fix it, not blame or paint stereotypes of "the software industry."
In all industries there are shitty employers, bosses, employees, customers, vendors (and any other relationship endpoint I've forgotten) but in my experience, those relationships all boil down to respect. If you don't have the respect you require in the relationship, you need to own that and either gain that respect or walk away.
You can work anywhere in the software industry and only work a 40 hour week if you haul ass in those 40 hours to deliver what is expected and get the respect you require to only need to work those 40 hours.
If you're not able to deliver what is expected inside of those 40 hours then you need to ask yourself the hard questions - are you doing everything you can to deliver? If you truly are doing everything you can, then you need to set better expectations with your employer.
If the work really can't be completed in those 40 hours, you need to stand up and give more realistic estimates so that your employer can make better resource management decisions. If they're not willing to consider your professional judgment and fund the resources to do the work in the amount of time you're willing to give, then you need to get your resume out, because there are plenty of places and jobs for talented software developers where employer expectations are realistic and there is respect for your time.
My last gig I averaged around 36 hours/week for the first few years, then dropped down to four day weeks for the next couple years, bringing me down to 28-30 hour weeks most of the time.
I'm sure they would have been happy to have me bill more hours. But at the end of the day it's your choice. If you want to work sane hours, you certainly can.
(Edit to stave off the obvious followup: US citizen, US companies. Contracting/Consulting)
What industry are you in that is over 40hrs?
- You take on contracts on the side and do not get enough sleep because of that.
- You think the company you work for should maybe compensate you with some time to sleep during their working time.
What happened when you asked the people you do some contracting for if you could sleep an hour and bill them your hourly for that?
I would think it reasonable for your full-time gig to respond in the exact same way as your freelance gig would.
At that point, are you not arguing what you perceive to be a moral issue, not one of producing value for your clients?
http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/features/america-its-ti...
The issue is paying the employee to sleep.
The issue isn't paying the employee to sleep, that's just a symptom of the real issue:
The issue is poor time and resource management or poor setting of client expectations on the part of the employee. They're not setting expectations well enough to manage their time and get the sleep they need to do the job they agreed to do when they were hired.
So realistically, if they're not doing the job we contractually agreed to, this should be disciplinary. If you're not living the life you need to meet the contractual obligation you agreed to, we need to review, renegotiate or cancel the contract. I don't care what you do outside of what I'm paying you to do, but if it's impacting your ability to do what I hired you for, then we need to talk - because I need someone that does what I need them to for us to get paid, if we're not getting paid, how long do you think I'm going to be able to afford to pay you?
I have budgets, product quality, deadlines and client expectations to manage as well. We're a team, if anyone on that team aren't able to function for the good of the team, then that needs to be fixed accordingly.
I was referring to hobs's suggestion that a mid-day nap increase employee productivity and work quality. That may very well be the case but I still wouldn't pay employees to nap in the middle of the day.
My point is that things we think may be taboo could in fact be beneficial if we are willing to reconsider the assumptions that it is based upon.
Anyway, thank you for letting me play devil's advocate :)
I am asking if paying someone to do something would produce an unambiguously better product, why argue with the practice unless its harmful/illegal/etc?
If I create software and I find that if I pay my employees to sleep and they create a better product than if they worked for 8 hours without me paying them to sleep?
You can blame the employees, but if you decide to ignore this practice and your competitor takes it up, they will beat you in the market while you complain about paying people to sleep.
This, however, is basically "Should my employer give me a benefit because I'm tired from working for other people?", which is, well, let me settle for "definitely not the same question".
In this case you can make a strong case that the employer in question isn't so much on the hook for providing nap time, but justified in firing you for not being able to keep up your end of the bargain because of your choices.
When I used to work in an office, that would end up being a coffee run or some sort of other distraction to try and get the energy up... Or simply staring at the screen for a few hours and answering emails.
That said, I give the folks on my team an hour per day for "stuff". Reading blogs, exploring the new-shiny JS framework or nap if you want. Devs absolutely need free space in their mind to let the subconscious solve problems. Its art and science - art needs room and science needs focus.
Trying to do too much leaves you doing less, with poor quality, which just piles up escaped defects and adds pressure.
You have to go slow to go fast
I'll say it again, your job is to add more value than you are paid by a job or freelancer. It's a tricky balance. You are hired full-time to give full time results, and being prepared to do so is your job is your non-full time hours which you can choose to spend.
Asking your full-time job to subsidize your time and energy to make money elsewhere doesn't make a lot of sense.
There is a capacity limit for every human being and you may need to rethink your business model, bring on help, and pick up management skills to not work harder, but perhaps work less and make more for those hours worked.
Things don't get easier, you just get better if you dive a bit more into achieving your goals in a way that aren't at the expense of others.
Most jobs will give you close to an hour for lunch and maybe even another short break during the day. That's plenty of time to nap, so long as there is somewhere quiet, private, and somewhat dark to lean back and shut your eyes for 15 minutes.
Sleeping is kinda like going to the bathroom in that you need a few fixtures and some privacy. All that is needed is someway to recline with your feet up (typically better for naps than lying directly down anyway) with some privacy. That's probably reasonable to ask for as long as its during the time you already get for a break.
I pay you to do a job that provides value to my company. You're not providing that value while you're sleeping. You can have nap time, but I'm not paying you to nap. As a coder and software architect myself, I understand that it takes a fresh mind to deliver your best work so I understand the need for sleep and you should have as much as you need - but I'm paying you to do a job, not sleep. You sleep on your own dime, not mine. If you're not coming to work fresh enough to provide what we agreed to when you accepted the job, then why are you still coming to work?
Also to those using, "Well you're only going to get 4 hours productive time anyways" - I disagree. The key to working long productive hours is taking short breaks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlU-zDU6aQ0
Yes, definitely. Word it as an extended lunch time though. Also, remark your productivity boost, which is what they really care about.
Besides, you can't expect a small store with one or two employees (e.g. a bookshop) to be open from 9 AM to 8 PM without any breaks in between.
I often have been the only guy at the office who took naps at lunch time.
I think it's also important to take holidays from time to time. Coding can get really exhausting mentally after a while and an occasional 2+ weeks holiday allows you to clear your head.
A lot of software developers spend time thinking about the projects that they're working on while outside of work hours - When you're working on two or more projects simultaneously, this effect is magnified and it can be overwhelming.
Much simpler and clearer.
</sarcasm>
not lame to need naps -- for 20yrs, I've taken naps when I'm stuck on a problem, literally "sleeping on it". Works like a charm.