The cult of memory: when history does more harm than good
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
I always recall Frank McCourt in Angela's Ashes talking about "the English and the terrible things they did to us for eight hundred long years" as it summed up much of the logic and reasoning [I mean that ironically] that led to thousands of murders in Northern Ireland. (edit: For clarity, I think Frank McCourt understood that very well and that's why it wrote it as he did.)
Young and impressionable people are prone to learning about historic injustice and they trying to right the wrongs by perpetrating new injustices. That's not what learning history is supposed to do - an understanding of history is about learning how society ended up the way it is now and trying to use that to improve society without repeating terrible mistakes that lead to death and mayhem in the past.
It's vital to learn history, but it's vital to learn context and the bigger picture too. Without that, it becomes the source of hatred that undoes the evolution of society (sadly there are too many examples readily available of that happening).
My Chinese great-grandmother was an opium addict who got kicked out of her village along with my grandmother and her sister after my great-grandfather died. That opium was imported by British merchants who the Qing government desperately tried to stop in the mid-1850's but failed and lost the wars.
My great-grandmother, raising my grandmother as a single parent, was unproductive as an opium addict even during the best of times, could not support my grandmother and her sister during the Japanese invasion of China. First she abandoned my grandmother's sister, and then my grandmother was left in the orphanage for a few years.
Later my grandmother was picked up by her relatives, but her sister never seen again. The lack of interaction with a father during my grandmother's upbringing meant when my grandfather had an accident working as a technician, and could not return to work, he did not receive the emotional support he could have received from my grandmother at the time, took it too hard on himself, and ended his life.
That is why when I was growing up my mother treated me as both father and son at the same time. As her children we were supposed to look after her emotional needs, while our own were neglected.
Listening to my grandmother's stories of having to hide every time the bomb siren went off because the Japanese were bombing the city, her starvation in the orphanage, children dying everyday, abandonment by her mother, loss of her sister, having an opium addict mother, how can I not be empathetic?
It doesn't mean I have to take action or hate people for it, but how can history not be personal when it affects me and my family so deeply?
Hell, I probably even wouldn't be here today if not for the turmoil in China's early 20th century causing many specific migration movements.
Everyone is personally affected by history, but this article is more about holding grudges against people or nations for centuries after the events that spawned those grudges. We need to understand history to understand how it shaped us and how we can avoid repeating events that we don't want to repeat, but we also need to resist the urge to allow injustices of the past to become an emotional impetus for present and future conflicts.
I'm particularly distressed by the fact my country doesn't do so, which is in great part why I find it much easier to identify with my Chinese ancestors (even though I only have partial Chinese ancestry) than my fellow countrymen (who are a spineless bunch).
Why would you cherish irrational vengeance instincts. Psychologically, I understand long term grudges from any slight are considered pathological personality traits. It's much more healthier and productive to forgive.
As a society, people can be totally clueless and immoral - but this is no-ones fault, it's a species trait. Political leaders can use their position to drive their societies to do any silly thing.
One can hold political leadership morally and legally responsible for their countrys action. Nationalities are an abstract layer on the tribalistic basic mode of our psyche - where we ask, what is our team - and who is our big chief.
In general, we need to feel part of a group. But the need for vengeance is totally not necessary for a healthy psyche.
It's very much a calculated thing, not an “instinct”. Social systems are driven by the signals the involved parties send each other. If you tell them “I won't retaliate”, they will act accordingly.
> Psychologically, I understand long term grudges from any slight are considered pathological personality traits. It's much more healthier and productive to forgive.
Why is it “pathological”? Are there any observable negative effects? Nobody is saying “don't think about anything else” or “stop being productive”. Just “bide your time and take revenge at the most appropriate time”. This is perfectly sensible.
> One can hold political leadership morally and legally responsible for their countrys action.
No free nation can have an unpopular leader for a long time. In the long run, the actions of a free nation, good or bad, can be entirely attributed to its people. If you don't want to be responsible for what your leaders do, move to North Korea or something.
> Nationalities are an abstract layer
Nonsense. Nationhood is as concrete as is your mother tongue and culture.
Yes: decreased happiness, productivity, and mental health.
> Nobody is saying “don't think about anything else” or “stop being productive”.
That's not how long-term grudges work in the real world.
> No free nation can have an unpopular leader for a long time. In the long run, the actions of a free nation, good or bad, can be entirely attributed to its people. [...] Nationhood is as concrete as is your mother tongue and culture.
Thas is a very, very, simplified opinion about complex matters. People with strong, oversimplified opinions about complex matters are dangerous to the rest of society. Please don't vote.
I can hold a grudge against you and still do business with you, simply because it's so damn profitable. That doesn't mean I'll hate you any less.
> Thas is a very, very, simplified opinion about complex matters.
If you want to attack my argument, give concrete evidence of its falsehood. That is, give me an example of a free nation where an unpopular leader managed to hold power indefinitely.
Just saying “there is more nuance to it, and you're too dumb to grasp it” is counterproductive.
> Please don't vote.
I have no choice. Where I live, it's compulsory. (Don't worry, what my country does has basically no consequences on world affairs.)
Uh, in dysfunctional settings this might be a valid strategy. Sure, I understand swift reprisal when the social code requires it for the individuals survival. But it's still a pathology - on the scale of the society. And luckily, not present in a modern civil society. If you live in such an environment then I am truly sorry for your current status.
And I claim we are partly at least talking two different things. Grudges spanning centuries between populations, and intra-population social dynamics are on two different levels.
Any way, if one needs to be vengeful to survive in a society I admit the root cause might not be the attitude of the agent-of-vengeance but deeper dysfunctions on a societal level.
The vengeance intent still produces absolutely no benefit to anyone.
" In the long run, the actions of a free nation, good or bad, can be entirely attributed to its people"
This would be a situation where the majority of population is actually driving the policy of the nation, instead of reacting to policies of the governing body. Usually it's the latter - the political elite and their network driving the political train. If there ever was a situation where the political leadership was simply enacting the "average will of the people" I would enjoy any references you can provide.
If the population is not driving the policies then it cannot be blaimed for the policies. Blaming the children of the perpetrators of any foul act is quite irrational (although practiced, yes, but still irrational and considered as such in civilized nations).
"Nonsense. Nationhood is as concrete as is your mother tongue and culture."
In general, nationhood as we understand it in the modern world is a fairly young concept politically. It's just one more football club to support. Mother tongue and culture are far more deeply rooted. For instance, Italy was a rambling collection of political entities after the roman times ended until Napoleon came and decided that governing the peninsula under one government was far more convenient. New club - one government.
>No, that is fundamentally wrong. Every self-respecting nation holds grudges,
Reciprocation is a fundamental concept in keeping social systems healthy and balanced. Read up on the Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma (or any number of the copious academic research on this subject; but PD is a great entry point).
"Merely doing what is beneficial at the time" is just bad advice, both on personal and social (national) level. "Spinelessness" is only a part of it; worse, such greedy strategies lead to poor socioeconomic results in the long run.
Very likely. But...
Read up on the Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma (or any number of the copious academic research on this subject; but PD is a great entry point).
I am not a game theorist, but I have a passing interest in this topic and have done some reading on it over the years. And offhand, I'm not aware of any research that shows that IPD strategies, developed using computer simulations that run over the span of hours, are applicable to time-spans on the order of decades or centuries or that they apply at the level of nation-states. If you are aware of that research and could share a reference or two it would be much appreciated.
Note that I'm not saying it doesn't exist or even necessarily disagreeing with you. I do a feel a mild degree of skepticism, just because in these scenarios you're talking about reciprocating against people who weren't the enemy in previous iterations... indeed, people who weren't even alive in previous iterations. I don't think it makes any sense to treat, say, "1650 England" and being synonymous with "2016 England", or to say that Germany circa 1917 is the same country as Germany today. As such, I question if "tit for tat" or similar strategies apply in the same way as they do in the simulations.
> "Merely doing what is beneficial at the time" is
>just bad advice, both on personal and social
>(national) level
In a sense, every day you wake up is one more day tacked on the those 800 years -- dozens of generations of abuse.
> If you were a Catholic in Northern Ireland in the
> recent past, subject to arbitrary harassment and
> systematic discrimination, you might feel differently.
My grandparents were born in Ireland and were children during the 1920s. They were more live and let live, but my older uncles who were of military age and more aware of what was going on had a distinct distaste for most things British.
No one's saying the legal system is fine (though that said, it should be pointed out that it's biased in more ways than one and on more than race), but there's definitely a bunch of people trying to tar everyone with the same brush, and thinking that certain things are the only differentiators.
The world would be much more fragmented, if not more Frankish and perhaps Spanish.
can't say i'm all that romantic about notions of empire, though.
The memory of World War Two does not make Germany and Japan my enemies. On the contrary, it shows why we MUST be friends.
If possible. WWII also showed that trying to be friends at any price can work out quite badly.
Never thought that would be on-topic at HN.
Punishing the individuals responsible for specific acts is all well and good within reason, but collective punishment is wrong.
Isn't the whole notion of "your kind" simply another biological imperative rooted in kin altruism?
What this guy is getting at, in a necessarily stupefying way to confuse and tire the reader, is that we should remember certain events and not others. No doubt the lists of things to be forgotten and propagated will be determined by people as enlightened as himself. But on that count he's calling for the status quo making the article that much more dull.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jun/30/remember-d...