Ghost in the Shell remains our most challenging film about technology
newstatesman.com
newstatesman.com
If you have never seen the 2-season TV series (and 3 additional films), "Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell:_Stand_Alon...), it is by far the best contemporary outlook on near-future internet technology still. Black Mirror is up there, but I think that Ghost in the Shell: SAC presents this cultural criticism in a much stronger (ie., less unhappy) tone.
Don't forget about the prequel/reboot Ghost in the Shell: Arise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell:_Arise)
Anyway, much agreed. I think GitS:SAC is a much better predictive commentary than Black Mirror (of which I am also a fan). IHMO, it predicted Anonymous much better than I think most techies understand Anonymous today.
http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Laughing_Man
"'The Laughing Man' became something of a pop culture obsession for a time, much to the chagrin of the actual Laughing Man—the irony being that since everybody used his icon and name for their own purposes, the original meaning of his actions, an artful forced confession of the truth through fear in the public eye, became 'phony' itself. The effort to stand for and demand the truth was also lost forever."
That's so similar to how I at least understand Anonymous to exist that it's sends some chills up my spine. The things done in the name of Anonymous are all practically verbatim "Stand Alone Complex" type scenarios where there's not really a leader driving anything, but the interplay of "The Media", individual goals and interests, and a pseudonym to take credit all work towards the creation of a self-sustaining identity utterly independent to the original inspiration.
Meaning that people employ variations of Anon tactics, as reported by the media, against people and groups for the flimsiest of reasons.
Now we have trolling, sock puppetry, link echo chambers, and other mechanisms that attack our tendencies of contributing in social networks that make it easy for even a single individual with nothing but disdain and time to derail or discredit if sufficiently motivated.
It isn't Anonymous, but the penetration of internet and social network into everyday life that makes these tactics more effective than ever, and so anyone with a spare five minutes and a chip on their shoulder can froth the waters; they don't have to be living in their mothers' basement and have a file called "my_hidden_agenda.txt" on their Desktop.
Someone who knows more history than I do can probably take them a lot further back to (e.g.) public pamphlet debates in the 17th century. I wouldn't be surprised if there were Roman and Greek equivalents.
Anonymous independent-action-under-a-common-pseudonym has a long history in politics. The Angry Brigade and King Mob are two recent pre-Internet examples - from the UK in the 60s/70s.
Historically, Internet trolling is a lot more civilised than some of the things that used to go in previous centuries. Trolls may be rude to you on Twitter, and they may even dox you and cyber-stalk you. But unpopular people don't often have to face a lynch mob or a riot outside their front door.
Why would you say there has been an upsurge in trolling recently?
I'm not disagreeing per se, but the amount (and type) of trolling you see on your daily web browse is one of those things that heavily depends on the particular filter bubble you live in.
If you were to ask me, personally I observe way less trolling than back in the day, but I wouldn't call that a general trend cause I know it's just the part of the web I see.
There's one thing maybe (but again it might just be a function of the things I like to look at), is that a whole bunch of different trolling techniques that would have been considered "creative" or "highly original", most of them related to culture-jamming/subversion (in a very broad sense), memetics, or absurdism/surrealism, are not quite as "special" any more and routinely employed by (young) people for fun on media like Tumblr, etc.
Honestly that's a really interesting theme and I wish it was examined more in other stories but cyberpunk and even post-cyberpunk is basically dead.
Simulacra is an ouroboros
Anyway, give Diaspora by Greg Egan a shot. I'm not familiar with a more visionary story that challenges the most fundamental aspects of identity in so many ways. It's definitely not "near future" either, though.
His contemporaries (geographically, as well as thematically) Richard K. Morgan and Adam Roberts are probably also worth checking out.
(Incidentally, my father lives in Lochcarron, where most of the action is set in The Sky Road. We can see the island where they shoot down a bomber with a nuclear RPG from his window.)
_Learning the World_ I totally agree with you. It's superb. And it's got alien space bats in it!
It spends much more of its time on multi-episode story arcs, and does them better than GITS does, but doesn't do as well at one-off episodes. For reference, I thought the one-off episodes were the stronger part of GITS; if you disagree you'll enjoy Psycho-Pass even more than I did.
Second season wasn't nearly as well-done.
- Space Brothers[2] (It's a bit like a soap opera but scifi)
- Serial Experiments Lain[3]
- Texhnolyze[4] (The tone doesn't change and it can be difficult to watch)
- Dennou Coil[5] (No streaming sites found, so MAL link. Watch it if you can find it)
[1] http://www.funimation.com/shows/psycho-pass/home
[2] http://www.crunchyroll.com/space-brothers
[3] http://www.funimation.com/shows/serial-experiments-lain/home
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-02-23/maiden-japan...
It's coming out on Blu-Ray and DVD on June 28th. It's possible it might become available for streaming at some point after that.
Planetes (2003) - deals with space debris [1]
Summer Wars (2009) - epic social MMO [2]
Sword Art Online (2012) - stuck in virtual world MMO [3]
Trailers:
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DakRYsUIiIE
Robot Carnival - collection of short stories [1]
Neo-Tokyo - same as above [2]
Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou - an android running a coffee shop out in the countryside [3]
Ergo Proxy - androids becoming sentient [4]
Probably getting slightly off-topic now:
Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind [5]
Cannon Fodder [6]
Tamala 2010 [7]
[1] http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=82...
[2] http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=20...
[3] http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=11...
[4] http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=51...
[5] http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=18...
[6] http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=42...
[7] http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=26...
Eclipse Phase sourcebooks (tabletop RPG, the most coherent treatment of this kind of thing I've ever seen; open-source)
From the New World (animé again; further future and more fantasylike than cyberpunk, but very much about what it means to be human)
Someone has already mentioned Rainbows End
Chasm City by Alastair Reynolds (novel, further future - part of a wider series but this one has particular identity aspects to it. Can be a bit long and cumbersome - try Diamond Dogs for shorter Reynolds, though that's further detached from present reality)
Altered Carbon (and sequels) by Richard Morgan (novels (the first one in particular has a whodunnit aspect), near-future, about memory and identity, written from a fairly leftist perspective about a capitalist dystopia)
Various of Jon Courtenay Grimwood's novels, particularly 9tail Fox. Grimwood is... divisive, and sometimes hasn't done the research, but it's very much this kind of subject matter
Possibly Carlucci by Richard Paul Russo (novel with a police side, very much grounded in San Francisco - I can't remember this so well)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Experiments_Lain
"Serial Experiments Lain (シリアルエクスペリメンツレイン Shiriaru Ekusuperimentsu Rein?) is an avant-garde anime series directed by Ryutaro Nakamura, with character design by Yoshitoshi ABe, screenplay written by Chiaki J. Konaka, and produced by Yasuyuki Ueda for Triangle Staff. It was broadcast on TV Tokyo from July to September 1998. The series is influenced by themes such as reality, identity, and communication,[1] and it demonstrates them by using philosophy, computer history, cyberpunk literature, and conspiracy theory."
Its near future cop series about the effects of technology. Got a slight cyberpunk feal. I liked it a lot but unfortunately it was canceled after one season.
The movies "Revolver" and "MR Nobody" might also be up you alley.
I really liked the book "Seveneves". It is definitely near future. Think "The Martian" style hyper realistic SciFi in space. It's decided into 3 parts. The first two are incredible, though I think the author let himself go in the 3rd. Still a wonderful book though.
Halting State, Rule 34, and Glasshouse by Stross might also be up your alley.
And Blue Remembered Earth by Alistair Reynolds but probably not the sequels.
Oh, and Nexus by Ramez Naam.
I'd certainly recommend Ken MacLeod in general but I'm not sure he's exactly what you're asking for unless you're also interested in examinations of radical political philosophy.
Fractale has a different tone and would be a far future, but the questions it poses on AI can be interesting.
Paprika (2006) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJzEW_eE1G0
In the near future, a revolutionary new psychotherapy treatment called dream therapy has been invented. A device called the "DC Mini" allows the user to view people's dreams. The head of the team working on this treatment, Doctor Atsuko Chiba, begins using the machine illegally to help psychiatric patients outside the research facility, using her alter-ego "Paprika", a sentient persona that she assumes in the dream world.
* Ghost in the Shell: Arise - Alternative Architecture
* Ghost in the Shell: The New Movie [sic]
* Ghost in the Shell
* Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence
* Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
* Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig
* Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - Solid State Society
Not all of them are strictly speaking in the same universe, but afair this gives the most chronological feeling results ;)
I know all the many venues to grab these - any preferred method you'd recommend?
The only "official" way seem to be the BDs.
Stand Alone Complex is on DVD. I like it a LOT more than the movies, as it really portrays more characters as 3-dimensional than just the Major and her partner, Bateau. I don't know if it's on Amazon Video, but there's a decent chance of it.
Arise, the movies, the manga, and GITS:SAC are all different universes (Shirow himself has said this).
I'd watch it the two movies (avoid the CGI-ed remake of the first one), then all of three seasons of SAC[1], and then Arise: AA.
And for those who don't know, AA is the series based off the four episode OVA. The OVA... sucks, the pacing is really bad, and they basically quit making more of it so they could make a proper series out of it. It isn't bad, but it's no SAC; it's more like an animated version of the manga, but not as Shirowy.
Just realize you're watching three different almost unrelated works.
[1]: Did you know SSS was meant to be an entire third season? They couldn't secure the budget for it, so they made a compressed movie like they did for SAC and 2nd Gig (The Laughing Man, and The Individual Eleven, respectively).
I feel Arise should come first because it has the most "origin story", and I put SAC last, because I like to keep the best for last.
And, like I said, it "feels" more chronological that way (to me). TBF, it's been a while since I saw SAC and the movies, so it's possible I misremembered.
SAC really seemed to nail the character portrayals, IMO, and felt more accessible. Arise adds the backstory of how they got together that I really had always wanted to see.
Maybe a season of SAC, then the movie(s), then Arise? I don't know, I'm sure the order is not critical. It's not like Star Wars or Star Trek movies in that regard. :)
Unfortunately, Alternative Architecture (and the Arise OVAs) are all behind Funimation's subscriber paywall. I've seen the first three Arise OVAs on Netflix (although OVAs 1 and 2 come down today). The fourth OVA hasn't come to Netflix (at least here in Canada).
Here's my preferred order, along with some info/opinions about each work:
• Ghost in the Shell (1995). If you watch one thing in this list, watch this. Make sure it's not 2.0, which adds lots of ugly brown CG to the 1995 version.
• Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence (2004). This is set several years after the events of the first movie. If you're pressed for time, you can skip this without missing anything important in other works. Honestly, Innocence is my least favorite work in the franchise. My biggest criticism is the ponderous pacing. Mamoru Oshii likes to dwell too much for my tastes.
• Stand Alone Complex (2002). While the characters and technologies are similar to the movie, this is a completely different universe. It also differs from the movies in its treatment of philosophy. Instead of having characters say something like, "What does it mean to be human?", the show tends to set up circumstances that make you, the viewer, ponder such things. It's much more natural.
• Stand Alone Complex: 2nd Gig (2004). This continues the story from Stand Alone Complex. If you haven't watched the first season, you will be confused.
• Stand Alone Complex: Solid State Society (2006). This movie is set several years after the events of 2nd Gig. Again, if you don't watch the earlier seasons, you'll be confused.
• Ghost in the Shell: Arise (2013). This is a continuity separate from both the original movie and Stand Alone Complex. You don't need to watch the earlier works to enjoy this series, but you'll miss some shout-outs and references. More importantly, watching Arise first will warp your perception of the earlier works. It would be like deliberately watching Neil deGrasse Tyson's Cosmos before Carl Sagan's.
• Ghost in the Shell: The New Movie (2015). This is set after the events of Arise. You'll definitely be confused if you don't watch Arise before this.
Except for Innocence, this is the same order in which these works were released.
If you're looking to stream these, you're going to have a bad time. While they're mostly available on Amazon Video, the quality is lacking. Some only have english audio. Some are mislabelled. Some are "special" editions with various edits, altered artwork, and "updated" effects. If you want to make sure you're getting the ideal experience, your only hope is to blow money on the DVDs or Blu-rays, or pirate them. :(
This particularly comes out when you compare it to the TV series and the subsequent films, which are none of those things. Even when you might argue the film is trying to make a point, the TV series makes it much better. It also has contemplative moments and character pieces and shots that simply show city life and all of the things the movie has, but they are better integrated and paced much better.
YMMV of course. (There was a time when "the anime canon" was Ghost in the Shell (the movie) and Akira; there is still some residual Thou Shalt Not Criticize attitude about for those two, but not much anymore, I think. GitS does fare rather better 20 years on than Akira, which I believe modern consensus is that it is just one big mess, which I thought even when I saw it in 2001 or so. A landmark, yes, but still a mess.)
Highly, highly recommend the TV series. I'd suggest starting there (they are technically different continuities that just happen to have similar characters, so you will miss no story), and circling back around to the movie if you still want more.
IMO, it suffers from the Seinfeld effect where you can't watch it in context, because you have seen so many derivative things.
PS: Even 2001 was late as it was released in 1995 when only around 40 million people world wide had been on the internet. http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/03/31/internet-1995/
Actually, I think it's the exact opposite. By no means do I consider myself an "otaku", but when I started counting up the things I've seen I got to over a couple dozen each of television series and movies before I stopped counting. That's nothing in some circles, but it's enough that I'm well over the "frisson" of watching something in a foreign language or with subtitles, and I can separate out that element from the underlying movie.
And as it happens I rewatched it again last year, and I'd still say it's klunky, slow, and weirdly paced. I don't think those criticisms are likely caused by the Seinfeld effect. The story of the movie is still quite good, and the story is why I'm serious about swinging back around to it if you want more because it is worth it, but if I'm going to recommend something to somebody for their first time out I'd still much more highly recommend the TV series.
To exaggerate a bit, a hypothetical scene which has one character confess love for another can in Japanese sound like a hateful declaration of war. Lot of shouting.
Edit: Since this comment seems to be getting downvotes, I should add what I thought was obvious: the above is just my opinion, that's how the movies in Japanese sound to me and my ears.
Given the great effort to build out the internet and datacenters its a fun conspiracy to wonder if we are serving a sentient AI on the net.
While it does give us some visual information about the birth of cyborgs (using a female body, causing the mental conflict of finding a cartoon robot 'sexy'), there aren't many movies that will take an almost four minute musical interlude showing random city scenes and the rain falling...
I think it ties in perfectly with Kusanagi's introspection, her pondering on exactly what she is, what the 'ghost' is, etc.
I don't think any of it is wholly original - from Neuromancer to Blade Runner, but it definitely stands on its own as a beautiful film.
>Oshii has stated his approach to directing is in direct contrast to what he perceives to be the Hollywood formula, i.e. he regards the visuals as the most important aspect, followed by the story and the characters come last. He also notes that his main motivation in making films is to "create worlds different from our own."
>Mamoru Oshii's films typically open with an action sequence. Thereafter, the film usually follows a much slower rhythm punctuated by several sequences of fast action...
>Oshii is especially noted for how he significantly strays from the source material his films are based on, notably in his adaptations of Urusei Yatsura, Patlabor, and Ghost in the Shell. In their original manga versions, these three titles exhibited a mood that was more along the lines of frantic slapstick comedy (Urusei Yatsura) or convivial dramedy (Patlabor, Ghost in the Shell). Oshii, in adapting the works created a slower, more dark atmosphere especially noticeable in Urusei Yatsura 2: Beautiful Dreamer and Patlabor 2: The Movie. For the Ghost in the Shell movie, Oshii elected to leave out the humor and character banter of Masamune Shirow's original manga.
It was the greatest experience in a movie since my most favorite one: Blade Runner.
Thats why I can't follow your judgment. For me the movie is art. It's slow moments are something I rarely see so perfectly made and fit to draw Cyberpunk. It drags me into the world making me think about the frame for a moment. The music never gets enough attention here but the combination is very artistic.
In the end, there will always be people who just find it boring. Like Blade Runner. I think, we have more then enough action in the world of moving pictures. Stopping for a moment and thinking about the picture itself won't hurt.
Sadly most of it is pitched at young teens and kids (notice the amount of them set to a school background).
the likes of GITS and Akira are outliers, with many of them having been made back during the OVA (Original Video Anime, meaning anime released directly to video sale and rental) years.
If Ghost in the Shell were live action, chances are the robots, the invisibility, the cybernetics, the cyberspace would look totally lame, because you'd have to suspend your disbelief for each of these effects individually. But once you suspend your disbelief for the medium, you can just sit back and enjoy.
The series breaks from this pacing and overall impressionistic presentation. It has plenty of time for developing more characters and a complex story. The Motoko in GitS is so different that she's almost a different character, and while that sort of fits the narrative of the movie I don't think that was the intention. To be honest I got bored with some of more procedural episodes, and the long-running complex plot could be really confusing. The characterization of Batou and the Tachikomas is really interesting though, and the action sequences become much more compelling after you feel like you have more invested in the characters.
It's philosophical without being lecture. Beautifully weaves thoughts about networked society into an action packed and aesthetically pleasing bombardment of the senses.
Thing is that he was barely involved in the making of original movie, but heavily so with the TV series.
On another note, Black Mirror is great but it doesn't even exist in the same realm as Ghost in the Shell. In 1989 we had a much less developed idea of the consequences of future technologies. The ideas presented in the original Ghost in the Shell are basically just rehashed in Black Mirror. I remember how mind blowing I found the Matrix when I first saw it (I would say it's probably the only futurist movie that changed my outlook on the world) however after watching the original Ghost in the Shell I realised that it was just a reinterpretation.
Meaning that our subconscious stops nitpicking, and our conscious can therefore fully engage with the message.
If you haven't, read them, as well as the hit-and-miss sequel Man-machine interface, and Appleseed (which unfortunately has been tarnished by terrible adaptations).
I watched it recently though, and it just didn't really hold up. I'm not quite sure what it was. Maybe the ideas just weren't as innovative anymore? I think the first film stands up a lot better.
Avoid the "Ghost in the Shell 2.0" edition of this film, which was released on Bluray a few years back. For this version, it was decided to "upgrade" the original film with new CG elements, very much in the same mindset as George Lucas and Star Wars. You might think it reasonable for someone to go back, identify weaker scenes in the original, and then attempt to fix the results of budget and time limitations. This is what Lucas did, and even that was divisive for fans. However, that's not what happened in the case of "Ghost in the Shell". Instead, they redid the same big, expensive, gloriously detailed moments that the original splurged on. The result is that some of the film's best shots are replaced with poor quality CG that is jarringly out of place. On the whole, "Ghost in the Shell 2.0" makes George Lucas look restrained, respectful, and subtle.
Oh, and for some reason they ripped out the U2 credits song too. If you liked that track you might miss it.
The 25th anniversary version that recently came out is apparently the theatrical version, so that would be a better bet, although I cannot guarantee it's good personally (I haven't seen it yet).
One thing that makes the series top-notch for me is the original soundtrack, composed by the great Yoko Kanno. I mean, wow, some of songs are gems, with lyrics that are deeper than most songs I've heard.
Be Human: https://youtu.be/fDtLpCzKqkQ
Living Inside the Shell: https://youtu.be/YSj91yopjDg
If you're a fan of sci-fi, be sure to watch the series at least.
The whole "What is human intelligence if it can live inside a machine? What if AI can actually be smarter than us? And by the way, how to define and measure intelligence ?" questions is really fascinating.
The GITS movie will always my ultimate favorite movie, not only because it's brilliantly directed, but because that seems to exactly be what AI scientists are trying to do. It also raises good question of psychology: how does a brain work, and can we heal mental illnesses? We might never know and we might wait 300 years or more to figure it out.
The sequels could have been spectacular but they concentrated on blowing shit up with cool effects instead of the intellectual parts.
The movie "Her" has a different take on what it is like with being an AI, and I liked it.
Like a lot of GitS media, they're unique and don't mesh perfectly with the others, but if you like SAC, you'll probably like them. A lot of scenes are echoed between the various OAVs and the manga, especially the first.
Edit: Just a quote, to show my fellow HN-ers that these are must-watch movies.
For me, the future vision of hyper-personalised advertising and 'clienteling' is in many ways, far more insidious than any overt Big Brother-type figure lurking in guises such as that of Minority Report's pre-crime division.
I found Huxley's vision - a world in which we, as a populace, are distracted from truthful experience and thus controlled by being overloaded with the experiences we love - to be enormously more terrifying than a world where we are controlled by what we fear. If you think of this type of control in the context of an abusive relationship, then it becomes clear how many more people would be vulnerable and how few would be willing to leave even if they did realise the truth of their situation.
You need far more control and fear to manipulate people than you need if you employ loyalty. If you can get people to love you, they imprison themselves.
Incidentally, John Oliver had a great bit on Drumpf but the comments I've seen so far run along the lines of "F*uck you, you just be hating" by people that don't seem to have even bothered watching the whole segment. I find this infuriating. It's okay to disagree but dammit, at least take time to get educated before outright dismissing things. /rant
Expanding on my earlier premise, notice how this activity resembles a sociopath who is attempting to control a target or, perhaps as a more concrete example, an abuser in an new relationship. The isolation and alienation map fairly well. This then proceeds on to the campaign then making policy promises that sound like very good things to those it has captured all while moving the goal posts to ensure those promises needn't be kept.
Of course, because they needn't be kept, these promises are distractions for whatever goals the campaign might actually have, if any. It would be refreshing to have, in office, someone who simply wanted the power of it and wouldn't know what to do with it once gained. Actually, that's terrifying.
The methodology is clever, if you can call it that, in that most it targets of it are willingly blind to it, but it's also quite transparent if you know how to interpret it. Ever spent some time with a couple who have a terribly manipulative co-dependent relationship? Much of politics is like that. Sadly, those who buy into the charade will have the dismissive statement, "you're too cynical," or, "you always see the worst in them," ready for use if you have a moment to talk about it with them -- no matter the party or policy, so long as it's their party or policy. Such is humanity. I may be cynical, but since when has that ever been a reason for dismissing an argument?
Of course, most campaigns (read, sociopathic entities whatever they may be - be they a corporation or a single person) work this way. It's the easiest and most efficient way to gain control in, around and over any group of humans. The really terrifying thing is, once you've realised what's going on, you can never unknow it. I suppose that learning to cope with that realisation is something most people never really have to do whether through ignorance or, well, not coping with it.
I found myself quietly laughing at some portions of the show, but overall it didn't seem like "oliver skewers trump" was fitting.
It's been some time since I've seen MR, so maybe I'm missing details, but it seemed to show a big idea and then concentrate on tiny group only / action sequences. Kind of the reverse of GitS showing the actions of tiny group, but never losing the context of the big idea.
The current TV version of Minority Report unfortunately does not seem to have tackled these issues much and is more like a near future police drama instead. Bummer
That was a shallow movie if I ever remember one. How could a whole society idea of justice depend on just a set of 3 freaks detained in a kind of underground lab. This just does not make any sense, because it does not scale and it depends way too much on the human factor.
I'd wager that if such a thing ever exist in the future, it will be a matter of computers calculating probabilities based on a huge dataset they are constantly mining to detect abnormalities. But even if that were the case, it would probably fail to work unless you have a direct feed into everyone's private lives and way of thinking (and i don't mean just internet spying, it would need to go way further than that).
I find older science fiction especially to seem to be made from cardboard cutouts. I couldn't make it through the first book of Asimov's Foundation series for that reason. A masterpiece in the estimation of many, but unbearably simplistic and shallow to me. A story stretching across a galaxy and hundreds of years, and nothing seems to be happening in that galaxy except the minor events driving the main characters forward.
You're describing "Person of Interest"
One exception would be the English version of the childrens show "Magic Roundabout" which I believe was originally a French political satire. The English version just watched the show and then made up a story to go along with what was happening on screen.
I presume Zebedee was meant to be a caricature of de Gaulle but if I am mistaken I am sure somebody will correct me. :-)
The possible exception would be Steins;Gate; I contend that the mad-scientist ranting sounds better in your native tongue.
(I am aware of the position that it's somewhat less authentic and will concede that the English version of Mayuuri's tu-tu-ruu is of lower quality.)
That said, I didn't appreciate the title conceit and thought the stories got weak whenever they approached it.
There is no ghost in the shell, not in the real world. A person's thoughts, character, and emotions come from neurons, hormones, and sensory input. There's no way to take a person's unique consciousness out of their body, keep it in a jar, and move it somewhere else.
At best it might be possible to emulate someone's brain, but that's not what they did in Ghost in the Shell.
However, in theory it may be possible to reproduce those elements down to a molecular level, allowing the emergence of the "original" consciousness from new matter.
So, if you imagine that "ghost" is metaphorical speak to, say, to summarize, the film is not strictly wrong.
The series has at its core that question.
Is the Major the same Major as she was at the beginning of the film?
the premise of the series is that they acknowledge that you can't just beam someone's brainwaves or other things and expect that "shell" to be the same exact person. throughout the series they use dummy bodies and even hack into other people's bodies, but they never transferred their consciousness into a machine. there are people with robotic parts, but they all always have an original brain. a lot of the series discusses this aspect of how it makes humans unique in the world they live in and a lot of the episodes revolve around that situation.
i feel like if you only watched 2 episodes, you are not giving the show a fair shake. it's also one of those series that requires multiple viewings to get everything.
The TV series is mostly about the second title, the "Stand Alone Complex," a phenomenon where some behaviors and movements arise within unrelated groups of people with no identifiable source.
Always wanted to see more of this genre. I know they're doing a live action Ghost in the Shell. Have mixed feelings about that. Nonetheless, I'd like to see more movies that have enough tropes and cultural tie-ins to be successful but throw in those GitS or Matrix-style element to really get people thinking.
Most recent in get you thinking, but not mainstream, movies is Ex Machina. Whole movie, minus a few things, is essentially built on the acting and esp dialogue that questions reality. Kind of a budget film but I thought it was great. Just watch the movie not the trailers as there might be some spoilers in there.
EDIT: This is not the GITS version shown on tv. The TV video only had footage of the tank scene.
Eg. What could happen if there exists a chip that stores all your memories. Is it good or bad? :-)
I might have gone on if they were alternating the pattern or something, it was simply too much of one ugly core theme for me.
The series was never intended to be positive in any way. It's supposed to be a kind of terrifying warning.
Just don't watch the original video animation things (OVA), which are basically two movies that each are amalgamations of Stand Alone Complex's two seasons. Not only is Batou's voice different, they don't do SAC any justice. Those things should be banned.
one of those rare occasions where the sequel is just as good as the original but for completely different reasons
> I don't have any idea of what it was trying to say.
i am guessing this is in response to the way the characters have entire conversations with only referencing abstract quotes.. and to this i have to say i like this kind of dialogue
if you do too, i would recommend the mid century new wave, specifically jean luc godard.. there is a sac episode in homage to him as well so perhaps my seeing similarities is more than coincidence.. stuff like pierrot le fou and notre musique are heavy with these quotation dialogues
if you dislike this sort of writing style, may i suggest some ways to enjoy it more:
you could watch the film like you would read a book, maybe a chapter a night spread out over a few nights to give you time to digest your mind's philosophical ramblings, and allow you to flip back and forth to track context
also, or, you could get a list of all of the quotes used in the film from their original authors and read them, considering their meanings, before watching the film
it can be frustrating to try to keep up with abstract concepts and poetic structures when you have the time frame subtitles afford
by reading the quotes before hand you will recognise immediately what is being said and be able to consider the context of your understanding of its meaning within its placement in the film
having one character dismiss another by answering a question using a quote from a 19 century poet, then later have another character, absent from the original scene implying omnipresence, recycle that quote in a completely different context and then also finish the rest of the quote altering its meaning is masterful writing
spoilers from the original 1995 film ahead:
it is rare to see someone take something as brilliant and successful as the 1995 ghost and decide to make a sequel completely abandoning the original's main character and themes to focus the main thread on a support character from the original
innocence is the story of how those left behind deal when a respected person leaves and how that void pulls all of them around
batou in innocence is a different batou from gits, in the absence of the major he begins to take on the inquisition that made the major so powerful, and this worries everyone else in the same way batou was worried about the major in gits
batou's mirroring of the major's personality is only able to be relieved to his own personality again due to the event at the end of the film
what oshii did with innocence is commendable
i think all of the ghost material is masterful and great fodder for staring out of windows
"mirrors are meant to be looked down on; stead looked into" .Ryokuu Saitou
I am also told that it can be a little off-putting or disorienting to some because it is more concept-driven than plot-driven, which, in addition to being an awkward mashing together of the beginning and the end of the manga (manga wrangling seems in some form or other a common source of awkwardness in anime- e.g. Akira), is probably why it was hard for me to follow. To each his own, I suppose, but I think it's cool when you have both a well-told story AND intriguing concepts (e.g. Neuromancer, Gattaca, Blade Runner, etc.)
I still get goose bumps every time I watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsIQ_kA77b4
For the purest GiTS experience I would just watch the first three films GiTS (1995), Innocence, and Stand Alone Complex.
GiTS 2.0, in an attempt at improving the graphics, ruined the original feel. I watched the TV series - not bad, but not the masterpieces of story telling that the 3 films are.
But who cares what I think - what them all, and form your own conclusions :)
This one gives it to me every time.
check out this fan theory on identity of laughing man. https://www.reddit.com/r/Ghost_in_the_Shell/comments/2j9p8j/...
I do wonder how the hollywood version will mess up this movie.