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Comment by pgnas | Hacker News Reader

Welcome to the New World Order, you didn't think it was gong to be a democratic order. Did you?

These sweeping treaties (they are not agreements) lay the foundation of world government. yiu can be certain that nothing good will come from politicians secretly meeting to talk about a plan that no one is sharing. These treaties provide for unprecedented power to corporations to determine the goods and services to be traded. They are stripping away the boarders and soon the beast will be revealed.

The word of the decade is transparency, you assumed it was the government being transparent when in fact it is you and me that are transparent to the governments and corporations.

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At what time and place exactly was the "old" world order democratic?

Rome

Rome? The Roman Republic was an oligarchy ruled by the Senate, made of the richest families of Rome. After its fall, the last pretenses fell apart. You would have better luck with Athens.

Athens had Sortition.

It's pretty much as democratic as you can get.

Except for those pesky women and slaves.

True.

"Foundation of the western world government" would be more accurate. There are countries that (unlike EU) cannot be forced into signing this kind of treaties: e.g. China (for any number of reasons) or Russia (it's economically insignificant, but with political and military stances clearly in disagreement with those of the West).

The EU cannot be forced into signing anything. Nor can the U.S or India be forced.

This entire discussion is fundamentally about whether or not one or the other side of the treaty is "forced" (or "tricked" or any word denoting "win-lose" situation)—otherwise why are all the negotiations being made behind the closed doors?—like many others I find the opacity of the US-EU TTIP talks disturbing but you're free to disagree. Anyway that wasn't the point of my post. I only tried to bring attention to the fact that W in the hypothetical NWO is not (and cannot be) the whole world. There are "important" countries that are out of the system whatever the system might be.

>The nation state as a fundamental unit of man's organized life has ceased to be the principal creative force: International banks and multinational corporations are acting and planning in terms that are far in advance of the political concepts of the nation-state.

-Zbigniew Brzezinski, BETWEEN TWO AGES: America's Role in the Technetronic Era

Quite surprised to see a small bit of conspiracy stuff on HN.

To be honest, the NWO might be something good. Maybe in the future we'll admit it was a necessary thing to do. Just like there might be a time where people shouted against the republic system.

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